Another "What do I do Now" Question...

[sidearm613]

Hi all.
I recently joined the ranks of large format photographers when I received a 4x5 Calumet monorail in the mail. Hurrah for me! Now, I'm not entirely new to the large format experience, so I know the principles and the operation, etc. One thing that did take me by surprise is that apparently lenses designed for 8X10 or larger shouldn't be used on a 4x5 as it might result in softness at the edges and a loss of image quality. Is this true? Or is the Samy's camera guy talking nonsense?

The thing that is most new to me is the developing and metering. I am not yet equipped to do 4x5 developing, and I am curious how some of you do it. I need a daylight method of processing as my bathroom isn't nearly dark enough to do tray processing. I heard people mention "Combiplan" a lot. I also hear mixed reviews. I also seem to recall reading that Nikor made a 4x5 SS tank and reel system a while back. If this system is much better than the Combiplan, then it is the one I would like to use, so if anybody has any hints on where to find one.... Otherwise, I think I'll be taking my chances with Combiplan.
The other thing is metering. I so far have no handheld meter, and have been depending on the metering of a separate SLR or digicam. The problem with this is that its painstaking, tiresome, and, especially in the case of using a digicam which can't be stopped down past f/8, very inaccurate. Many LF lenses start around f/8! I have heard about incident light metering, as well as spot metering. I know how both work, but I could use recommendations on a meter that just.... works. I don't do much studio work and often photograph places where taking an incident reading would be, uh, hard. So what do I do?

[michaelbsc]

One thing that did take me by surprise is that apparently lenses designed for 8X10 or larger shouldn't be used on a 4x5 as it might result in softness at the edges and a loss of image quality. Is this true? Or is the Samy's camera guy talking nonsense?

Think about it for a minute. The area of a 4x5 would be included in the middle of the area of an 8x10. So if the 4x5 edges were soft, then over 75% of the area of the 8x10 would be soft.

The other way around, however, isn't so silly. A lens that has limited coverage on 4x5 will be noticeably lacking on 8X10. But even this isn't necessarily bad. I've gotten some good effects with a 6x9 105mm lens that "fades" nicely into the vignetting toward the edges on 8x10. Makes a nice round picture in the center. It probably wouldn't impress Edwin Weston, but I already had the lens and it is a hobby isn't it?

So, a lens designed for 8x10 will give you outstanding coverage on 4x5. And many of my 4x5 lenses have circles big enough that my pitiful eye can't tell they're not good enough for 8x10.

[David William White]

1) yes, samy's is some strange nonsense.
2) best to start cheap with developing. bathroom at night. (load holders at night too.) use those plastic containers that hold bags of milk, or juice pitchers - dev, stop, fix. will all fit on a counter. i've never needed anything else.
3) cheap slr with zoom is a great spot meter. and cheaper. take 'safety' shot with slr, same film. develop roll film first.

put savings into film.

[2F/2F]

If it's Frank, he is most likely not talking nonsense, and you may have misunderstood him. If someone else, who knows.

Generally speaking, lenses for larger formats don't need to be as "good" as those for smaller formats, because the pix are generally not enlarged as much. For instance, you will find that most of the time small format lenses outperform medium format lenses in the resolution department, and that medium format lenses outperform large format lenses. Whether 4x5 lenses outperform 8x10 lenses in the same way, I do not know, but if they do, that could be what the guy was talking about.

[nick mulder]

Michael has covered it (excuse the pun) - but I'll add that I suspect that the samys guy or yourself got wires crossed - it would be fair enough to say the reverse "lenses designed for 4x5 or larger shouldn't be used on a 8x10 as it might result in softness at the edges and a loss of image quality"

As for developing - the easiest trick is to wait until night, you'll still need to black out the windows and door frame and ask/tell your co-habitants to stay the $#%@ away please - and/or tape over the lightswitch for the hallway and the doorknob - then trays are go... A little (and I mean a really really little) spill is usually fine but depending on the construction of your house you might need to tape over the surrounds of light fixtures and upstairs shower plug holes that have plastic piping... Lights installed in other rooms can bleed through ceiling voids and these into your bathroom and onto your film

Metering - your digicam is a reflective style light meter and probably has a spot mode, in which case it is a spot meter - the fact it doesn't go down past f8 shouldn't be an issue, simply reverse engineer the settings ... say you want f32 and your digicam says at f8 it's going to trip the shutter for 1/250sec

f8 1/250
f11 1/125 1
f16 1/60 2
f22 1/30 3
f32 1/15 4

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs ! but if not and this seems tiresome, its gets hard wired into you soon enough


Nick

[sidearm613]

I knew the Samy's guy was wrong! I was thinking "wait, shouldn't the larger image circle mean I'm using the lenses' sweet spot on a smaller format?" VINDICATED!

As for tray processing, thanks but no thanks. I am currently living in the parents house, and next year its off to college for me. Sorry, I need a daylight solution. Besides, I am really not comfortable being in total darkness for sustained periods of time. It's a claustrophobia thing...

What I really want is one of those high end Sekonic L series thingermajiggers. Yeah!

[David William White]

how are you going to get film into holders and into a daylight tank?
how do you process now?

[Shadowtracker]

No matter what, you will have to load film in the dark at some point. That means film holders and taking film from the holders into whatever you are developing in. There are several plans for tubes to develop in but I've never used them. The dark is just the same as doing things with your eyes closed = move slower, practice in the light, then close your eyes and go through the steps and then turn out the lights and go through the steps. But you might be able to make a really dark changing bag type thing to hold the trays until developing is done, washing can be in the light. How to get trays or tanks into something like that is a bit of a mystery, but I don't mind the dark; it's my friend. Then too, drips of chemicals on whatever fabric you make a developing tent/bag out of could destroy the fabric. Still, it's an idea to toy with and see what you come up with. Maybe a box with changing bag sleeves. But once your hands are in the thing, they probably have to stay there until the film is fixed.

[wildbill]

David, pm me if you need film.

[ac12]

David
Consider using a processing drum. Check this link out.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/
This is the method that I am planning to use. Load the backs in a changing bag, then after you shoot, move the film from the back to the drum in a large changing bag. No need to be in the dark.

As for exposure, google "sunny 16 rule" and you should find sites explaining this. I used this in my early 35mm days when I did not have a meter. It worked pretty good. You just have to figure out when to use which description in the chart.

gud luk