the search for the perfect tripod for 4x5

[Poisson Du Jour]

The panning base is becoming more common on mid- to top-line ball head assays; my Manfrotto 498RC2 has it with engraved graduations. It's a lot better than the guesswork with other heads when overlaying "panorama" images with a shift lens. Allows the base to be rotated even when the camera position has been fixed — excellent for "changes of mind" (and I can do that several times in a session... ).

[Q.G.]

My ball head (PhotoClam PC40) has a separate panning base so I only have to adjust horizontally and vertically.

You'd think.
But every time you move the ball, to adjust either horizontal or vertical, it will not just move in the horizontal or vertical direction only.

Now if they would make a ball head that had separate horizontal and vertical (only!) settings...

... it would be a 3D head, and a much nicer thing.

[Poisson Du Jour]

Why do you want just horizontal or vertical adjustment only? That's, let me see: 1. Set horizontal; 2. set vertical; 3. set base (a gaggle of hand and camera movements, potentially repetitive until 'just-so'). Ballhead = all 3 tasks in one movement. It's an intuitive skill quickly picked up. I have used the 3-handled heads spoken of in this thread earlier for a number of years (putting up with rubber handles slipping off in hot weather).

The trigger grip head that came later (from 2003) was another notch up in efficiency. Heads with adjustable ball friction can hold the head with a little stiffness to allow very precise alignment of the camera (a bubble level in my hotshoe provides this cue), then lock it in place — free to leave the base rotation as it is, or slightly stiff). So I guess it's a matter of building upon long experience and never really saying "this will be the only head I'll use". It probably won't. What say you start by just picking up any sort of head for the LF, using it for maybe 2-3 years; then see how/if something about it could be improved? That's how I went about it. My total number of different heads used over 22 years has been just three: 3D, trigger and now ballhead (all with quick release plates which I consider essential). Anything else? Yes! There's just one left to try one day: micro-adjustable (thumbwheel) horizontal/vertical plane head (another gem from Manfrotto... ). This is the one I'd recommend for a modest large format e.g. a Wista 45 (after all, you don't tilt an LF on its side, do you? ).

[Q.G.]

Why do you want just horizontal or vertical adjustment only? That's, let me see: 1. Set horizontal; 2. set vertical; 3. set base (a gaggle of hand and camera movements, potentially repetitive until 'just-so'). Ballhead = all 3 tasks in one movement. It's an intuitive skill quickly picked up. I have used the 3-handled heads spoken of in this thread earlier for a number of years (putting up with rubber handles slipping off in hot weather).

And i have used ballheads for a long time too. Even though i don't like them, i still have a huge, old Arca Swiss ballhead.
So it's not about being experienced or acquired skills.
But thank you for assuming i don't know what i'm talking about.

The thing is that, just because ball heads do all 3 tasks in one movement, it is nigh impossible to nudge the camera in one direction (despite you asking why you would want to do that, needing to nudge it a bit in one direction only is a very common occurance) while keeping it's position fixed in all other directions.

At first glance it may seem that ballheads are much quicker to use than 3D heads, with their three separate settings. But once you start using the thingies, you'll soon find out that they only are if you don't really care that much about your camera pointing in the exact direction you want it to. If you do, ballheads really will drive you nuts.


But to each his/her own, of course.

[...] Heads with adjustable ball friction can hold the head with a little stiffness to allow very precise alignment of the camera (a bubble level in my hotshoe provides this cue), then lock it in place — free to leave the base rotation as it is, or slightly stiff).

Again, you would think so. But i find the reality of it is quite different.
Friction brakes are perfect to prevent the whole thing flopping over when you loosen the screw.
But what it also does is make it more difficult to move the camera in a precise direction. You're pushing to overcome the initial friction, needing more force than needed to move the thing once it starts moving. And when the friction gives way, the thing shoots off with less control over its direction than you would want and need. What it does is the opposite of allowing precise alignment.

So if i need to change the position, i loosen the thing completely. Works much better, more precise, than with the friction brake still on, i find.

[...] There's just one left to try one day: micro-adjustable (thumbwheel) horizontal/vertical plane head (another gem from Manfrotto... ). This is the one I'd recommend for a modest large format e.g. a Wista 45 (after all, you don't tilt an LF on its side, do you? ).

When considering the gear heads made by Manfrotto, better go for the heavier one(s). And even then test first.
The popular 410 works fine. But because they have a sprung brake, there is some residual play. Not a big problem with small 35 mm and the lighter MF cameras. But as the weight of what you put on the head goes up, the sprung brake has trouble resisting that weight, and the head will wobble a bit.


The best head for LF i have come across, ever, is the Sinar tilt head.
All it does is pan and tilt, leaving the other, third, direction up to the way you level the tripod and rotation of the rail in the rail holder.
Extremely solid.


Oh! a "by the way".
Sinars are/were famous for being "Torkelfrei" (one of the great words mankind has invented): they don't skew when the rotation of lens or film holder is used and the rail is tilted up or down to get more shift.
That is because of the order of the axes of the different movements.
Most, if not all other, non-"Torkelfrei" cameras will become "Torkelfrei" when you tilt them 90 degrees, changing the order of the axes.
So yes, it can be a good idea to tilt a LF camera on its side.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Now if they would make a ball head that had separate horizontal and vertical (only!) settings...

...then it would be the Arca-Swiss B2, unfortunately out of production, but eventually the Z2 should be replacing it.

Ball heads generally have a lot more strength for weight than pan-tilt heads, and they're nicely compact. The B2 combines the best of both, but it's a fairly large head designed for long lenses and big cameras (capacity up to 150 lbs.). My impression is that the Z2 will be lighter.

[Poisson Du Jour]

David, 150lbs (dang, I can't find the imperial to metric converter on iPhone...) sounds a heck of a lot of camera and lens to cart around — certainly beyond the 4.45kg that I trundle along with me bushwalking! The OP stated—

Ultimately, I want something that is light weight, less than 22 inches folded, easy to set up and use, and capable of supporting a modest 4x5 kit.

so light weight, a short size, ease of set up and [capacity to] support a modest 4x5 kit are key objectives — no doubt he'll have enough heads to choose from his fascinating collection of tripods (how many ... say again!?) to match to the new kid on the block. But I'm still no wiser as to what constitutes a "modest 4x5 kit" in terms of weight? Is it a Wista? Is it a Toyo? Or a Linhof? Is it a Horseman? A (shock, shudder) Tachihara behemoth?? The weight difference must be considerable. I touched on thinking that 1.6kg for a Wista would be modest. Heck, even a baby GITZO would stick that up with consummate ease. No, you cannot have my baby GITZO! Try flitching it and 'Brutus' (my immodest and immoral workhorse) will be sent out to look for you!

[Poisson Du Jour]

Im still on my first tripod.

It's a GoldPhoto.

I think its about 3-4 kg though all up though.


Paid $150 AUD for it from a camerahouse/retail shop including bag and head. Even the logo looks like Manfrotto's design, takes manfrotto parts too... picked up the Manfrotto #222 vertical trigger about a year ago for $20 AUD at a 2nd hand festival I use on it now.. though its not as stable as the rock solid 3 way pan head that came with the tripod.

It's stable enough to use in the water at the beach with the waves hitting it at any exposure length [...]

What do you mean, "even the logo looks like Manfrotto's design"??

Speaking of the beach and wet, squishy places, Manfrotto's excellent snow/sand shoes (or pods) are indispensable for the beach or working along the tideline and should fit your tripod (even fit my GITZO). I hate that 'sinking feeling' when the water rushes up!! No more with sandshoes!

I sold my Manfrotto #222 trigger grip on EaseBay last Thursday for $108 — despite having paid $90 for it new in 2003 (!).

'Night, folks. Sunday tomorrow and there is some landscape work to do in a typical down South winter chiller with teeming rain. Bring it on!

[David A. Goldfarb]

David, 150lbs (dang, I can't find the imperial to metric converter on iPhone...) sounds a heck of a lot of camera and lens to cart around — certainly beyond the 4.45kg that I trundle along with me bushwalking! The OP stated—

At this point I was just answering Q.G. so that people know that such a beast (a ballhead design that works like a pan-tilt head) exists. It's overkill for most 4x5" work, and when I need to go light with a camera 4x5" or smaller I usually use an Acratech ballhead. But if weight isn't an issue, then I use the B2, because it's rock solid in every position and offers fine control with a light or heavy camera. The Arca-Swiss ballheads use eccentric balls so the holding force increases as the angle of the camera increases, reducing the likelihood of sudden flops.

FHM also makes a ballhead with a braking mechanism, so you can level the camera left to right, apply the brake, and then it will only tilt on the fore-aft axis. I haven't used one myself, but it looks like a promising concept for something more controllable than a typical ballhead but smaller than the B2.

If you do end up with a traditional single ball head, the key I find is to use a bullseye level to level the camera.