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  1. #11
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Remember that Toyo make cameras based on the Super Graphic as well, they bought the tooling, and there's similar Japanese clones.

    While the Super Graphic lacks the rear swing and shift of my Wista it has more than enough front swing & shift, these tend to be the least used movements anyway. The drop bed gives greater tilt as well.

    The electronics in a Super Graphic are irrelevant unless you really want to use them.

    Ian

  2. #12

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    Hi C.W.
    If you are going to shoot landscape with movements on a 4x5, don´t worry about whether it takes you 30sec to setup or 2 minutes. I have a lovely Ebony 45SU which I believe is very quick to setup. It is just a matter of mounting the lens. Still I spend in average 20 minutes in preparation of an exposure. In my opinion it is just an entirely different realm than shooting smaller formats.
    What I am saying is: You may think you need a "fast" camera, but I think you may find that you worried about the wrong parameter.
    I would say go for those movements. And for a 120 back go for the Horseman 6x12. I thought I would use my 6x8 back too, but it just does not make any sense for me. And with 5cm back shift I can shoot two 6x12 frames and get a sweet 6x22 pano without moving the lens :-)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    You don't really need the size of 4x5 unless you print big all the time, i.e. larger than 16x20. If you use nothing but fast films, there would probably be an advantage too. There is a lot to be said for the convenience and cost factor of roll film (not to mention the availability of different products to fill your backs with). There are 6x9 options out there with plenty of movement for decent prices. I would look into the Horseman medium format technical cameras with their matching lenses.
    Part of the appeal for me for 4x5 is the access to 150+ years worth of lenses you don't get with medium format systems. Lots of interesting styles and methods and choices for photography.

    I do like the quality to be inherent to be able to make 16x20 prints. I don't do too many of them for cost and darkroom time constraints. I print mostly 8x10 & 11x14 for silver photos, and contact print for 4x5 alt-process. Sometimes I enlarge MF onto xray dupe film and contact print from that too.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    The Super Graphic (or MPP/Lihof not forgetting Japanese clones) can do the same and have significantly more movements as well as revolving backs.

    Try using a Crown Graphic in portrait mode there's ZERO tilt capability

    Ian
    True, but the resolution is so high that I never need to shoot in portrait mode, I don't mind cropping off an inch to make a portrait print.

  5. #15
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djacobox372 View Post
    True, but the resolution is so high that I never need to shoot in portrait mode, I don't mind cropping off an inch to make a portrait print.
    The resolution of 35mm camera lenses is a touch higher so I take it you do the same with a 35mm camera

    Many of us shoot full frame, no cropping so a revlving back or full movements is important.

    Ian

  6. #16

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    The only thing that I can add to the consideration is the difference in format dimensions between the 6x9 and the 4x5. I always thought the 4x5 blocky at 1:1.25. Landscapes, to me at least, just look better when wider, where I look at the 4x5 frame as a nice portrait dimension. Now this does not mean that there aren't a ton of great 4x5 and 8x10 landscape pictures, cause even a 1:1 format can look great if composed properly.
    If you find yourself use to the longer frame which incorporates more, you may just find yourself starting to shoot wider lenses on the 4x5 as I did, and of course that pushes the subject matter back and widens the near far perspective. So all in all, it's not just that the working characteristics of the 4x5 may be slower for most, it's adopting a different perspective in your photography. I'm personally returning to the 6x9 format in the baby Graphics; I like the smaller body sizes and the compression I get in using a normal to wide 4x5 lens in the smaller format especially when out in the American west. It's just something to think about and of course it can be overcome by cropping. BTW, the sheet film camera really lens itself to self developing with the cost of sending off to a lab much higher nowadays, and of course the restricted selection of good color films at decent prices.
    W.A. Crider

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Daniel
    If you are going to shoot landscape with movements on a 4x5, don´t worry about whether it takes you 30sec to setup or 2 minutes. I have a lovely Ebony 45SU which I believe is very quick to setup. It is just a matter of mounting the lens. Still I spend in average 20 minutes in preparation of an exposure. In my opinion it is just an entirely different realm than shooting smaller formats.
    See, that's something i have a hard time wrapping my head around. 20 minutes? What are you doing all that time? I guess i tend to think about how i want the photo before i even go get my camera, not with the camera out. Once i actually get it, it's a very fast process. Set up, focus, wait for the light, take the photo. 2 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by waynecrider
    The only thing that I can add to the consideration is the difference in format dimensions between the 6x9 and the 4x5. I always thought the 4x5 blocky at 1:1.25. Landscapes, to me at least, just look better when wider, where I look at the 4x5 frame as a nice portrait dimension. Now this does not mean that there aren't a ton of great 4x5 and 8x10 landscape pictures, cause even a 1:1 format can look great if composed properly.
    I'm not terribly worried about it - i shoot 645 a bunch, which is a pretty close aspect ratio. I think i'd also like a 6x12 back.

    Quote Originally Posted by waynecrider
    BTW, the sheet film camera really lens itself to self developing with the cost of sending off to a lab much higher nowadays, and of course the restricted selection of good color films at decent prices.
    I actually plan on doing mostly B&W myself in my darkroom. I actually already have a 4x5 enlarger and the necessary lenses. I'm thinking i'll just tray develop at first.

    If it helps, i've finally been able to get a budget together - i'm thinking around $400 - $500 US for the lot, body, lenses, holders, ect.
    Last edited by c.w.; 03-08-2011 at 02:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by c.w. View Post
    See, that's something i have a hard time wrapping my head around. 20 minutes? What are you doing all that time?
    It is quite possible to spend 20 minutes fiddling with focus / perspective. I, personally, don't typically do that all that much but it does take more than 10 minutes to go through the entire routine (set-up, focus, meter, filters, take picture. take another. knock it all down). But that's with a Chamonix, which is quite handy but has some screws where I would have put snap on connections.

  9. #19

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    As Mr. Dundee would say... "That's not a Big Camera". 8X10 is starting to be a big camera. *L*

    That said, it often takes twenty minutes to set up, compose, decompose, compose again, focus, set up movements, check for vignetting, meter, record values, make decisions on exposure, etc.

    Part of the great part of LF photography. And when you see the detail you get on an 8x10 negative... whooo wheee!

    Get a Speed or Crown (very few movements to deal with at first), a nice 150 to 210 lens (135 if you are into that really wide POV) and some 125 or so 4x5 film (I really like FP4, use to like APX100). Addictive.

    tim in san jose
    Where ever you are, there you be.

  10. #20
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.w. View Post
    See, that's something i have a hard time wrapping my head around. 20 minutes? What are you doing all that time?
    It really doesn't need to take much longer than shooting with a medium format camera, once at a location I keep the camera on the tripod ready it's just a case of removing my backpack to get film holders & light-meter, although often I keep one in a pocket (when in the UK).

    Having said that shooting LF is more disciplined, most people shoot far less exposures and spend more time finding the image they want to shoot. Often I'll find the shot, if the lights constant I might set up the tripod & camera, then wander about a bit before deciding on the shot, most times I've already put the tripod in the right spot. Now in comparison an MF user would most likely shoot more images and work around a subject more.

    So now if we put that 20 minutes into perspective, it should take no more than 2 minutes to set up and actually make the exposure with an LF camera, the fact that you night spend 5 minutes or even an hour in the location is quite different, often I've gone out with an LF camera etc and spent 3 or more hours walking and never made an image.

    Ian

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