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  1. #21

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    Arne,

    You are right, but to what market? 20x24 shooters and the occasional Polaroid camera? What is the real market potential of a lens for this market? As I said, maybe 50 units, tops (not per year, total for ever more).

    The market for 11x14 shooters must be at least 50-100x as large, and the market for 8x10 shooters has to be 500-1000x as large, and probably even larger.

    The optics we are talking about are so darn simple that they must be relatively easy to manufacture. If Schneider is willing to consider a product with 50 potential purchasers, they must be open to the idea of the potential for the market for 8x10 and other formats.

    When Cooke started to introduce the new lines a few years ago, I thought that maybe things would move in the right direction, and maybe it'll be a company like Cooke that will come out with an inexpensive wide angle lens line that will be a good price, and meet the needs of the contact printers out there.

    One can only hope.

  2. #22
    acroell's Avatar
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    Michael, I fully agree that the audience is very limited given the choice of focal lengths and the prices. As Sandy pointed out, this holds especially for the 1100mm since there are viable used alternatives with the long Apo-Artars, -Ronars, -Germinars etc. available on the market. I just wanted to point out that Schneider actually did use old and proven designs, which you had asked for - just not for the prices (even street prices) and focal lengths that you had in mind. I don't really want to bash Schneider about it as I think any effort to bring out new lenses for the LF users these days is laudable , even if its for a superlimited audience. I actually hope they are successful with this so they are not discouraged serving the LF community with new offerings. I do agree that, say, something like a 300mm version of the 550mm for 11x14 might have a much greater appeal and market, and Cooke apparently is going more along that route - the series XV looks like a steal compared to the XXL lenses (it has of course much less coverage, being optimized for 8x10)).

  3. #23

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    Arne,

    Don't misunderstand my intentions with my post. I'm not trying to bash Schneider, only to understand exactly what they are thinking, as I don't see the logic in it for my understanding of the ULF market. Besides, if others tell Schneider they want a small line of lenses for contact printing, they may actually get enough encouragement to consider this approach for a lens line.


    ---Michael

  4. #24
    Eric Jones's Avatar
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    Hello All,

    The Schneider Fine Art XXL Lens Prices have been posted on the Badger Graphic Web site:

    Fine Art 1100mm/14 XXL $3595.00
    Fine Art 1100mm/22 XXL 3995.00
    Fine Art 550mm/11 XXL 4795.00

    Remember, the first reports from the field are usually wrong, lol.

    Best to everyone

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Jones
    Hello All,

    The Schneider Fine Art XXL Lens Prices have been posted on the Badger Graphic Web site:

    Fine Art 1100mm/14 XXL $3595.00
    Fine Art 1100mm/22 XXL 3995.00
    Fine Art 550mm/11 XXL 4795.00

    Remember, the first reports from the field are usually wrong, lol.

    Best to everyone
    hmmm, I dont get it, the f14 is cheaper than the f22, anybody care to take a guess as to why?

    And, $4800 for the 550, who are they kidding my Nikon 450 was $650 new on E bay..... I think I am going to go for the James Chinn camera and all the holders he can make instead (that is if Jim gets off his ass anytime this century.. )

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    hmmm, I dont get it, the f14 is cheaper than the f22, anybody care to take a guess as to why?

    )
    The f/14 is in barrel and the f/22 the same lens in a Copal 3 - the shutter limits the opening to f/22. The difference is the shutter price (and maybe a little difference for the lens cell mount).

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by acroell
    The f/14 is in barrel and the f/22 the same lens in a Copal 3 - the shutter limits the opening to f/22. The difference is the shutter price (and maybe a little difference for the lens cell mount).
    Thank acroell did not know that, but c'mon $3600 for a barrel lens?....lol... they have truly lost their mind, lets just drop a line to CP Goerz at e bay and see if he can scrounge up a few red dots for $400...lol..

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Jones
    Hello All,

    The Schneider Fine Art XXL Lens Prices have been posted on the Badger Graphic Web site:

    Fine Art 1100mm/14 XXL $3595.00
    Fine Art 1100mm/22 XXL 3995.00
    Fine Art 550mm/11 XXL 4795.00

    Remember, the first reports from the field are usually wrong, lol.

    Best to everyone

    To put things in perspective a 600 mm f/11 Fujinon-A lens that is probably 10-15 years old, with coverage similar to that of the Fine Art 550mm, sold last evening on ebay for over $3K.

    In terms of coverage there is no comparison between the 550mm Fine Art lens and a 450mm Nikkor M or a 600mm Fujinon C. Very few people will need the 850mm coverage of the 550/11 XXL but if you do you won't get it from either the 450 Nikkor M or the 600 Fujinon C. The only lens I know of that might compare in terms of coverage and performance would be a 24" coated Dagor, but that would be a really big piece of glass.

    Sandy King

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    These are not inexpensive lenses, but these prices are not much out of line with what I would expect to pay for specialty lenses of this type.

    To put things in perspective a 600 mm f/11 Fujinon-A lens that is probably 10-15 years old, with coverage similar to that of the Fine Art 550mm, sold last evening on ebay for over $3K.

    Sandy King
    Actually, that 600mm Fujinon A was 25 - 30 years old and single coated. The final selling price was $3161.95. Which means two people were willing to pay at least $3111.95 for a used lens with an 840mm image circle. Considering the Schneider lenses are new, multicoated and have even more coverage, the prices don't seem out of line. Of course, they are way beyond my humble means, but I'm sure they'll sell a few.

    These lenses remind me of the 300mm SW and 1200mm Fujinon A that Fuji introduced back in the 1970s. I doubt if they sold more than a handful of either lens, but it sure got people talking about Fujinon large format lenses, and convinced the photo community they were capable of producing some impressive glass and serious about entering the large format market. Likewise, these new lenses from Schneider have all of us talking about Scheider's new lenses (even if we can't afford them) and reinforces our faith in Schneider's commitment to the large format market. In that regard, the introduction of these lenses is a big PR win for Schneider. And heck, at the Badger prices, they might even sell a few to some fortunate, wealthy ULF shooters.

    Kerry

  10. #30
    Robert Hall's Avatar
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    Good to hear on the prices. I spoke to Frank at Samy's today in LA, he can get the Fuji lens for $2200, more or less, based on exchange rates from Japan. I think the ebay folks went a little overboard without doing their homework.

    On a coincidental note, I sent a letter back to Ron Leven, Sr. VP at Schneider and told him I was willing to pay 35 to 55 hundred for the lenses. Looks like I got my wish.

    Robert
    Robert Hall
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    Technology is not a panacea. It alone will not move your art forward. Only through developing your own aesthetic - free from the tools that create it - can you find new dimension to your work.

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