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  1. #41
    vpwphoto's Avatar
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    ....buurpppp. Sorry I started this one.

    Anyway... listening to stuff on the Marantz 2225 from the feed from the MacPro.. editing DSLR images today unfortunately.

  2. #42
    clayne's Avatar
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    Non-linear curves,
    Non-linear curves,
    Non-linear curves,
    ...

    If anything, audiophiles attempting to minimize signal "distortion" along the path are more digital than they are analog.

    Film and print people are more similar to tube and tape people than they are generic audiophiles.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  3. #43
    Lionel1972's Avatar
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    Tube and tape. I agree.

  4. #44
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vpwphoto View Post
    ....buurpppp. Sorry I started this one.


    At least we can get on each others' nerves a little bit, which is always good.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #45

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    I think it's important to realize, being technically superior and being "good" isn't always the same thing. In terms of linearity and S/N ratio, the latest digital gears do far better job than most tube gears. Human ears aren't quite linear and human minds aren't always logical either. I think when one departs from looking for what's good and starts to look for better numbers, there starts a beginning of much larger problem.

    With that...
    Let me just add, now a famous quote at my household, by my girlfriend....
    In response to my explaining what 'soft focus filter' does... she said,
    "you spent all this money for the best and sharpest lens and now you want to make it blurry?"
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  6. #46
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    being technically superior and being "good" isn't always the same thing.
    Think how awful rock and roll guitar would sound if technically perfect audio amplifiers were available in the 1940s and 1950s.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  7. #47
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Think how awful rock and roll guitar would sound if technically perfect audio amplifiers were available in the 1940s and 1950s.


    Steve.
    Think how awful it sounds now. ;-)
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel1972 View Post
    I discovered hi-end Hi-Fi equipment a couple of years before I rediscovered analog photography. Just when, 3 years later I did with Large Format and Medium Format, I stumbled onto some websites exposing the surprising qualities of analog (vaccum tube based) audio gear. Just like I started to feel the need to own at least one 4x5 and one MF camera when I had my mind blown away at the sight of some 4x5 Kodachromes from the 40's online, after I read how some old technology based equipment could enhance my listening experience, I looked online and found out I could actually afford a small integrated hybride tube amp (DARED MP-5). It came at my house along with small shelf Klipsch loudspeakers. Once I played a Coltrane CD (Love Supreme) I just couldn't believe my ears! I've played the saxophone in a small band during high school, and suddenly, right in front of me my ears and brain were fooled to the point that I could almost see and feel the instrument and all its little noises just as real as I remembered them. I just didn't know such realistic sound reproduction was possible. In a similar way the first time I looked into the blue eyes of my father with a loupe over my first 4x5 transparency portrait, I couldn't beleive my eyes, it felt as if I could reach and touch him. Again I did not know such things were possible. No digital device before nor since has giving me this experience. The non-linear properties of analog technology cannot be overlooked as equaled by "good enough" ditigal approximations. Our phyisical experience of the world is far more sensitive to those differences than what measurements and theories are able to envision so far. Oddly enough, recently I thought I would get a better source by playing my CDs on a brand new Sony Blu-Ray player. Ended up very disappointed as my old hard-discount supermarket DVD player (50 euros paid more than 5 years ago) does produce a better, more 3-dimensional and natural sounding source. Yet I get the most real-like (almost touchable) sound from good vinyls on my PE34 Hi-FI turntable from 1964 that I bought at a charity flea market for less that I paid for the DVD player.
    I had almost the same experience. Went from mp3 format to wav. then to optical digital output and 5 channel sound, and I liked it. Then I found a ancient cd player at the junk store , and replaced the output filters from the dac with tube outputs.
    It sounds as if the performers are in the same room with you , with all sorts of nuances coming out of the music . Even my daughter noticed(Why does it sound so good?). I almost always use it now even though it can't handle anything more than a standard CD ( it IS a dinosaur). Digital has a place but so does analog, and sometimes they can work together very well.
    r paul

  9. #49
    clayne's Avatar
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    Consider too the recording methods used for music produced today vs music produced in the past. Previously, 60s-70s-80s-early 90s, a lot of music was tracked to tape, with 24-32 track 2" tape being in wide-use by professional studios in the 80s. Then a final mix would be mixed down to 2-track (tape) and sent off to a mastering house - where the final master would be "cut". After that it'd either be cut do vinyl masters, 8-track, cassette or early CDs.

    Then came along the digital multi-track combined with final mix to 2-track tape - then eventually to never leaving the computer, sent to masters via DAT or CD-R and later electronically.

    Even ignoring the whole loudness and compression wars that came along with all of this "march" of technology, consider the difference in mediums used for tracking/recording and final mix downs.

    Then consider why an album from the 70s or 80s (again, ignore the compression part) just has a different sound/sheen/warmth vs a modern post 2000 album. Analog mediums were responsible for some of that.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  10. #50
    EASmithV's Avatar
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    Vacuum tube audio card? SWEET I love vacuum tubes.
    www.EASmithV.com

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera."— Dorothea Lange
    http://www.flickr.com/easmithv/
    RIP Kodachrome

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