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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I mean any CD, honestly. And I agree that digital can sound extremely excellent when done well. But as we agree, not with compressed music files from iTunes.
    It brings back memories of the whole SACD / DVD-Audio scenario. The music industry, especially Sony, backed these high resolution formats, and after releasing it while touting it to sound as good as vinyl, pushing expensive SACD players like mad, they figured out that the majority of the population didn't care and thought CDs or MP3s sounded well enough.

    I take your comment about tomatoes, and compare that to the beer and coffee industry. It is now a jungle of micro breweries and niche coffee roasters that cater to a larger and larger percentage of the population; well those that aren't afraid of things that actually have flavor. Soon Maxwell House, Folgers, Gevalia, and McGarvey's will be exotic coffees.


    Starbucks http://www.illwillpress.com/coffeehouse.html

  2. #62
    Paul VanAudenhove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post

    I take your comment about tomatoes, and compare that to the beer and coffee industry. It is now a jungle of micro breweries and niche coffee roasters that cater to a larger and larger percentage of the population; well those that aren't afraid of things that actually have flavor. Soon Maxwell House, Folgers, Gevalia, and McGarvey's will be exotic coffees.
    I think I would be frightened to find out how many of those products are being promoted as 'premium' when they are actually low level products.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul VanAudenhove View Post
    I think I would be frightened to find out how many of those products are being promoted as 'premium' when they are actually low level products.
    What's truly shocking is how few customers can tell the difference.

  4. #64
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    So true!

    What I find shocking is how many people don't want to know the difference! And it doesn't seem to matter if you're talking about beer, audio equipment, photography or coffee. Worse, it seems that even suggesting that there is much to learn and enjoy about a subject gets you labeled as a 'fringe element!'

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul VanAudenhove View Post
    So true!

    What I find shocking is how many people don't want to know the difference! And it doesn't seem to matter if you're talking about beer, audio equipment, photography or coffee. Worse, it seems that even suggesting that there is much to learn and enjoy about a subject gets you labeled as a 'fringe element!'
    Or a geek, nerd, picky bastard, elitist, etc. ... take your pick. The media are enabling the sheeple and droolers, nobody that watches a lot of tv seems to want to work at enjoying anything.

  6. #66
    Paul VanAudenhove's Avatar
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    Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. -- HL Mencken

    The tragedy is that intelligence or knowledge is considered acceptable to ridicule.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul VanAudenhove View Post
    Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. -- HL Mencken

    The tragedy is that intelligence or knowledge is considered acceptable to ridicule.
    Yes, and "critical thinking" has become a pejorative term. I keep thinking of the prayer "From bastards too ignorant to realise there is any such thing as smart, may the good Lord preserve us".

  8. #68
    Paul VanAudenhove's Avatar
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    Amen!

  9. #69
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I mean any CD, honestly. And I agree that digital can sound extremely excellent when done well. But as we agree, not with compressed music files from iTunes.
    It brings back memories of the whole SACD / DVD-Audio scenario. The music industry, especially Sony, backed these high resolution formats, and after releasing it while touting it to sound as good as vinyl, pushing expensive SACD players like mad, they figured out that the majority of the population didn't care and thought CDs or MP3s sounded well enough.

    I take your comment about tomatoes, and compare that to the beer and coffee industry. It is now a jungle of micro breweries and niche coffee roasters that cater to a larger and larger percentage of the population; well those that aren't afraid of things that actually have flavor. Soon Maxwell House, Folgers, Gevalia, and McGarvey's will be exotic coffees.
    Maybe - ugh, consider how PBR is now hip in many places. In Atlanta at least this was due to shrewd marketing as they poured lots of money into sponsoring events and such among hipster/goth/etc. areas and groups.

    On the audio, I was talking to a musician friend last night who (he admits he has a lot of hearing loss from years of heavy metal and being a drummer) said he can't hear the difference in an 192 kbps or above mp3 and a CD or good vinyl. On my simple gear I can't either. I suspect I could on the right stuff, though, in the right room. I can hear the difference in a 128 kbps and something better. I suppose I'm an elitist in photography and one of the unwashed masses in audio.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Maybe - ugh, consider how PBR is now hip in many places. In Atlanta at least this was due to shrewd marketing as they poured lots of money into sponsoring events and such among hipster/goth/etc. areas and groups.

    On the audio, I was talking to a musician friend last night who (he admits he has a lot of hearing loss from years of heavy metal and being a drummer) said he can't hear the difference in an 192 kbps or above mp3 and a CD or good vinyl. On my simple gear I can't either. I suspect I could on the right stuff, though, in the right room. I can hear the difference in a 128 kbps and something better. I suppose I'm an elitist in photography and one of the unwashed masses in audio.
    As usual, in this country where a lot of quality is measured in quantity, I believe that PBR became cool again when it was made available in larger cans.

    I hear a difference between a compressed file at any bit rate and sample rate and the original CD. I've made comparisons by uploading well recorded CD material to an Apple laptop via iTunes, one lossless format, and one AAC at 320kbps, and then played via the digital output (bypassing the awful sound card) and into a Wavelength DAC. The difference is not subtle at all. What's funny is that BOTH the AAC and the lossless music file, once downloaded to the hard drive, sounded better than just playing the CD via iTunes and disc drive. Imagine that! (The Wavelength is the best digital front-end I've ever heard, bar none at any price, so it's fair to say the equipment used was extremely good).
    Last edited by Thomas Bertilsson; 02-01-2012 at 08:32 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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