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  1. #121
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    I think it's a good idea to do what we can to make ALL of our pictures look their very best. We owe it to the arts, if nothing else.
    I was shooting some portraits outdoors last month, and knew from experience that I need about f/8 for close-ups to have enough depth of field to be satisfying to my eye, while at the same time isolating the subjects from the background. My Summitar just works so well at f/5.6 or 8.
    Had I opened up more, all the way to f/2, the background becomes too busy and distracting again, while focusing on the fly will be far more difficult.

    If I focus at f/1.4 with a 50mm lens, and a full figure shot, I stand a chance at recording enough depth of field to have enough focus where it doesn't look terrible. But when I move in that DOF becomes narrower the closer I am to the subject. Why, then, not stop down enough for decent depth of field?

    Anyway. Use your tools to fully explore the medium. Don't limit yourself.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #122
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I was shooting some portraits outdoors last month, and knew from experience that I need about f/8 for close-ups to have enough depth of field to be satisfying to my eye, while at the same time isolating the subjects from the background. My Summitar just works so well at f/5.6 or 8.
    Had I opened up more, all the way to f/2, the background becomes too busy and distracting again, while focusing on the fly will be far more difficult.
    I'm sure just getting a portrait of a fly is difficult enough...
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #123
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    I'm sure just getting a portrait of a fly is difficult enough...
    Touché. That was very poorly written. Can I blame not being a native English speaker, or should I just accept it?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Touché. That was very poorly written. Can I blame not being a native English speaker, or should I just accept it?
    No, that's not an excuse. When I was born, I couldn't speak at all - just drooled a lot and made gurgling and mewling noises - look at me now!
    Last edited by E. von Hoegh; 08-23-2013 at 10:48 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #125
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    No, that's not an excuse. When I was born, I couldn't speak at all - just drooled a lot and made gurgling and mewling noises - look at me now!
    OK. I'll just suck it up then... haha
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #126

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    "Wenn ich Bokeh höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning!"

    - Unknown photographer from 20th century.
    Last edited by Dali; 08-23-2013 at 01:16 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "The problem with photography is that it only deals with appearances." Duane Michals

    "A photograph is a secret of a secret. The more it tells you the less you know." Diane Arbus

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dali View Post
    "Wenn ich Bokeh höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning!"

    - Unknown phorographer from 20th century.
    (When I hear the word "bokeh" I grab my Browning" - one can only hope it's the m1919 .50 cal. )
    "Mit der dummheit, kampfen Goetter selbst vergebens"


    -Schiller.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    OK. I'll just suck it up then... haha
    Indeed.

    Why, not being able to talk was the least of my troubles. I couldn't stand or walk, I couldn't even crawl. And I crapped all over myself several times a day.
    Last edited by E. von Hoegh; 08-23-2013 at 01:36 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #129
    Chris Lange's Avatar
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    DoF is mainly an afterthought for my 35mm photography, but figures in heavily with my medium format stuff. Probably due to using an RF for almost all my 35 work now and I am used to composing with the entire finder "in focus". I think SLRs encourage "bokeh"-laden photographs because they throw it in your face from the get-go. A teacher I had in college referred to the fad of taking out of focus pictures of lights and other nonsense not as photographs of a subject in front of your lens, but as photographs of your lens.

    When I say it figures into my medium format work, it means I generally work at whatever aperture allows me to set my Hasselblad at 1/125 or 1/250 in whatever light I happen to be shooting in, and I have to take the DoF on the focusing screen into account at that point. "Bokeh" for me, when it isn't an ancillary characteristic of whatever settings I have decided to use, is there to serve one purpose, that is to juxtapose hard and soft edges in the photograph.

    case in point:


    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  10. #130

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    I think one of the reasons this bokeh stupidity annoys me so is my use of large format. When your standard lens is 300 or 360mm, you have to work to place the plane of focus where it belongs. Using a 300mm lens, standard on 8x10, f:32 gives about the same DoF as f:5.6 on a 50mm standard lens with 35mm. F:1.4 translates to about f:8 on the 300, which is generally considered by most experienced LF user to be unuseably shallow DoF for most scenes.
    On the positive side, LF lenses are "straight" lenses, no telephoto or retrofocal jiggery-pokery is applied except for some few extreme WA designs. This helps give them a smoother rendering of OOFAs.
    And if you want to see what beautiful rendering of OOFAs is all about, pick up a 100 year old Dagor and use it a f:22. Smoothness that tiny format lenses can only fantasize about...

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