Help with old movie camera purchase

[Fintan]

I'm hoping this is the correct place to post this. I'd like to try some old movie camera for which b+w film is available and that I can process myself.

I've absolutely no idea what I should consider and searches on ebay are confusing me.

My budget would be about $600 USD for camera plus developing tank/reels etc.

Can anyone please advise which format would be best for my needs.

[Frank R]

We probably don't have a lot of movie makers here. But I have used an Arriflex S. I bought and sold a Canon Scoopic which was in superb condition.

Try googling "16mm filmmaking" and "16mm film making"

[firecracker]

Bell and Howell spring-wind 16mm cameras are good, solid, and very cheap. You put a 100ft roll, shoot, and send it to a lab to process for great convenience. I haven't tried to develop any moton-picture film by myself, though.

Do you know anyone doing it locally? The advice you could get is perhaps from a local film school in your area if there are still "real" film classes being offered...

[David A. Goldfarb]

16mm gets expensive really fast. I tried it with a Krasnogorsk 3 I purchased in Eastern Europe in the 1980s, but had to sell the camera, because I couldn't keep up with the film costs.

If you are interested in Super-8, there are lots of film options now. I have a Beaulieu 4008 ZMII, which is the sort of camera that will appeal to a still shooter--lots of manual control (many cheap Super-8 cameras have only automatic ISO settings at 40 and 160 and limited exposure control). If you go that route, be sure it has a working battery or budget around $100 for a replacement battery.

If you want to process your own film, there is a Ukrainian guy who sells Lomo tanks that can do 8mm, 16mm, and 35mm. Hunt around, and you'll find him.

For Super-8 I highly recommend the Bolex splicer.

Be sure also to budget for an editor/viewer and a projector.

I've found the best deals on film from John Schwind (google him to find his webpage, and then e-mail--he has items that aren't listed on the website).

Check out filmshooting.com for lots of info on small-gauge filmaking.

[jnanian]

not sure if you know about the huge 8mm page ...
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/
not sure how often the page is revised over the years
but it might be helpful ...



good luck!
john

[Kino]

As a person who has spent the last 30 years of their life in and around motion picture cameras, film and laboratories, let me say (for what it is worth) that I think you should concentrate on making images and leave the processing to a good professional lab.

Why? More uniform results at a cheaper price than you can do it yourself.

Believe me, I have been down that "home move processing" road and it certainly is not cheap, consistent or efficient to process that way.

The tanks are cumbersome, the chemistry (especially the bleach for reversal) can be skin-peeling and noxious and the inordinate amount of time and money required to buy all the raw materials, set it up and get your first results are, in the end, NOT WORTH IT!

If you botch processing a roll, you eat the cost of everything; if a pro lab botches it, at least they replace the raw stock and generally give you a refund on your processing charges...

Now that I have said that, I know you will totally ignore me, so here is good link on home processing; http://www.geocities.com/gselinsky/FAQ.htm

This will make you nuts if you shoot Super 8mm...http://homepage.mac.com/onsuper8/process.html

Good luck.

[Dan Fromm]

WRT processing, I'm with Kino.

I disagree strongly with David about the wisdom of buying a used Beaulieu. Yes they're lovely. Yes they offer full control. Yes they are C-mount so can use all sorts of lenses. But they're flaky and repairs are expensive.

I say this from experience, having bought three (4008ZM, 4008ZM2, 5008S-MS) of which I still have the last two. After I sent ZM2 and 5008 to France for very expensive overhauls -- I won't say how much, but your budget won't cover the cost -- they ran fairly well but as purchased they were all disasters. The ZM2 never gave the claimed 70 fps.

If you must go Super8, buy a copy of Lenny Lipton's The Super8 Book. Its a useful guide to S8 cameras made up to the book's publication date. The book idea I took away from it is that one in three of the cameras Lipton tested was DOA. And he started with new cameras, not used ones.

If you want to go S8, consider a Canon 310XL. This is a pretty robust stalinist sort of camera -- one speed, guess focus, doesn't tell you what its doing -- with a very good 8.5-27.5/1.0 lens. They shoot well with the w/a adapter too. Within their limitations, my 310XLs produced better footage than my Beaulieus.

If you want to go 8/8, think Bolex.

[AgX]

I vaguely thought about obtaining a Beaulieu of the 4000 range too. But, at least at the net, you encounter warnings not only about the power supply but also about the mechanics. They seem to be bitchy. Fine as long they work, but… I’m daring concerning mechanics but never ever did anything on cine mechanics. I know that the Wittner company have purchased the huge Beaulieu spare inventory. So there would be new parts for the worst case. But could they be maintenanced/repaired without being Beaulieuwise one of the chosen few?

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

As a person who has spent the last 30 years of their life in and around motion picture cameras, film and laboratories, let me say (for what it is worth) that I think you should concentrate on making images and leave the processing to a good professional lab.

Why? More uniform results at a cheaper price than you can do it yourself.

Believe me, I have been down that "home move processing" road and it certainly is not cheap, consistent or efficient to process that way.

I was reading "From Dry Plates to Ektachrome Film" by C.E.K. Mees and on the chapter about amateur filmmaking he noted that Eastman Kodak decided from the start to ensure processing of amateur films. Pathé had many customers complain that they were not getting consistent enough results, and ended up returning the film to Pathé for processing.

An interesting detail about reversal film processing he mentions is that they eventually discovered that re-exposure should be adapted to the density of the negative image, so they had to do clip tests and densitometer measurements in order to properly fog the film (bad summary from my part, I know!). Not the kind of job I'd like to do at home.

[Dan Fromm]

AgX, power supplies for 4008 Beaulieus are easy to make. I used a 2.1 AH 7.2v NiCd pack made for a radio controlled model car, connected it to the camera via a hacked Beaulieu cable and a Beaulieu battery dummy. IIRC, the camera wants a connection to the battery pack's - pole, + 3.6v, and + 7.2v. With a different hacked cable I used the same battery pack for my 5008. Much less expensive than having a Beaulieu battery recelled and much much greater capacity too.

The 4008 and 5008 battery dummies have different connectors. I ended up with two hacked Beaulieu cables, each with the same "battery side" connector that mated to my battery pack's connector, if you see what I mean.

I can't advise on do it yourself repairs. You might ask Wittner if they offer service too. Here in the US we have to use Super8 Sound (sorry, not the name they now use). I sent my cameras to France for service, with the help of a friend in Paris, because Beaulieu believed that S8 Sound didn't have the parts etc. to do good work on such old cameras.

At one point I bought a very inexpensive used ZC-1000 with 7.5-75/1.8 with the idea of getting a 4008 without lens and using the Fuji lens on it, but then lucked into a ZM2 with 6-66 Schneider. 6 mm is much more useful than 7.5. The ZC-1000 is a beautiful camera, but I'm not aware -- haven't looked, though -- of anyone offering reloadable Single 8 cartridges or Single 8 film for that matter.