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Thread: Flatbed scanner

  1. #21
    Art Vandalay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarker
    Art - you might try scanning B&W negs as positives, and then invert in your photo editor. I'm not sure which software came with your Canon, but I sometimes need to do that with the Epson and Silverfast.
    It's worth a shot! Otherwise I have no idea what to do about it. The Canon editing software that came with the scanner is poor and is primarily concerned with e-mailing your snaps to Grandma. The actual scanning software is 'Scan Gear CS' and it's very basic. Fortunately they also bundled PhotoShop Elements 2.0 with it and that's what I use for editing.
    Is there anything donuts can't do.

  2. #22

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    If you are getting increased grain when scanning film over prints you need to fiddle with your settings.

    In simple terms you are probably under or overexposing your scan..

    A few posts above someone asked if the Epson 3200 will scan a 6x7 neg.
    Yes, the 3200 comes with a Neg holder for 6x7.

  3. #23
    Art Vandalay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian_greant
    If you are getting increased grain when scanning film over prints you need to fiddle with your settings.

    In simple terms you are probably under or overexposing your scan.
    I generally spend a fair amount of time setting the exposure in the scan so that I don't have to adjust the brightness very much and at a slightly lower contrast. However, this is doesn't mean anything since I'm adjusting for it's appearance on the monitor, which has shown itself to be way out of whack with the printer. So you might be right!!!
    Is there anything donuts can't do.

  4. #24
    rbarker's Avatar
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    Some scanner/software combos just don't deal well with B&W film. I'm no scanner expert, but my assumption is that the software is designed for dyes, not grain. Scanning as a positive, adjusting the settings in the preview to give a good negative image, and then inverting in Photoshop usually solves that problem.

    If your original software is the pits, Art, you might try Viewscan by Hamrick Software (www.hamrick.com). It's relatively inexpensive and gets rave reviews. Silverfast seems to be considered the best for desktop scanners. But, if it doesn't come with the scanner, it's expensive.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  5. #25
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    The best results can be had with an IT8 target and then an ICC scanner profile created through a calibration software tool like those offered by Monaco or Gretag-Macbeth

    I'd suggest you get a print target and a transparency target and setup at least two different ICC profiles. I'd also recommend you use the Adobe RGB gamut as your working space. I have an ICC profile for colour transparencies, SCALA transparencies, colour negatives, B&W negatives, colour prints and B&W prints. Each profile tweaks something just a bit to ensure the proper rendition of the media I am scanning.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  6. #26
    Art Vandalay's Avatar
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    Thanks for the information guys. ScanGear has settings for BW negs as well as 3 levels of grain correction...so I assume that it is set up for BW negs - but I'm willing to try other programs at this stage. I tried scanning a neg as a positive and negative image last night and could not see any difference between the two. I'll have to look into calibration as Art suggests. I'm also going to see if I can scan on an Epson to see if there is any improvement. I've never heard any complaints about Epson.

    Sorry for hijacking this thread
    Is there anything donuts can't do.

  7. #27
    Melisa Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart
    The best results can be had with an IT8 target and then an ICC scanner profile created through a calibration software tool like those offered by Monaco or Gretag-Macbeth

    I'd suggest you get a print target and a transparency target and setup at least two different ICC profiles. I'd also recommend you use the Adobe RGB gamut as your working space. I have an ICC profile for colour transparencies, SCALA transparencies, colour negatives, B&W negatives, colour prints and B&W prints. Each profile tweaks something just a bit to ensure the proper rendition of the media I am scanning.

    Regards, Art.
    Art,
    Which scanner do you have? I am looking at the Epson 4870. i've been having trouble deciding between the Pro version and the cheaper 'non-pro' version. I was wondering what that It8 thing was, since it mentions it is offered in the Pro version along with Monaco Ez-Color, Silverfast Ai, etc.

  8. #28
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    Hi Melisa,

    Right now I have the Epson Perfection 3200 Photo, but when I get time, I am going to but the Epson 4870 PRO model. Unique Photo in New Jersey has it for sale at $579.95. Just need the time away from work...

    An IT8 target is either a print or a tranparency that has a set of specific colours on it as an image. These colours have known values associated with them. You take a scan of the target and use the calibration software to perform a comparative analysis of the scan to the what the values should be in RGB space. This information is then used to create a 'profile' of your scanner - which essentially, makes software corrections to ensure whatever you scan in the future will scan in colours properly.

    Hope that helps.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  9. #29

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    I get the feeling that this thread should be on the alternative process sub forum…, but I’ll throw in my 25 cents and hopefully folks will find the information useful.

    I have an Epson 4870. The differences between it and the 3200 can be boiled down to three points. Resolution, ICE and price.

    1. The maximum optical resolution for the 4870 is 4800 dpi vs. 3200 dpi for the 3200. This is important when scanning film smaller than 4x5, because the extra resolution will be an advantage for higher quality output (especially oversize prints). If you just plan post images on the web, save your money. If you plan on other uses including printing images or oversize contact negatives, the higher quality will weigh in. Interestingly, when scanning 4x5 with the 4870, the scanner only permits a 16 bit scan up to 3200 dpi anyway (with a resulting file size of 1 gig!)
    2. ICE adds quite a bit of time to the scanning process (a 45 minute 16 bit scan of a 4x5 piece of film becomes 5 hours), but it saves an inordinate amount of manual labor spotting out dust that is attracted to the film and scanner bed. With my computer, the scanner operates in the background, so the extra time is less of an issue. I also ease the pain by starting a scan just before heading off to bed, so that it is waiting for me in the morning.
    3. Is ICE and increased resolution enough to justify a higher price? That depends on what your time is worth and what sort of budget you have. Regarding price, it is not necessary to purchase the PRO model of the 4870, which just includes more unnecessary software options. The standard EPSON driver that comes with the basic 4870 is a terrific program that is easy to use and produces wonderful scans.

    Some final notes:
    A dedicated film scanner will typically outperform a flatbed. So scanning your 35mm shouldn’t be factored into your decision if you have access to a film scanner.

    Charles Cramer uses the 4870 to proof his 4x5 color negatives, a task he feels the scanner performs better than even the $65,000 TANGO for a variety of reasons. First, there is less apparent grain. Second, the software seems to generate more accurate colors from his negatives, and last, it is very convenient to drop a 4x5 negative into a film holder and plop it on a flatbed than wet-mount the same film for the TANGO. I will say, he still finds the TANGO superior for scanning transparency film, but notes the discernable gap in quality is narrowing daily with advances in consumer technology.

    So as you consider the purchase, ask yourself what size film you will be scanning, what the intended use for the scan will be (web or print), if it is a print, how large will it be, and finally, how much is your time worth?

  10. #30

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    I get the feeling that this thread should be on the alternative process sub forum…, but I’ll throw in my 25 cents and hopefully folks will find the information useful.

    I have an Epson 4870. The differences between it and the 3200 can be boiled down to three points. Resolution, ICE and price.

    1. The maximum optical resolution for the 4870 is 4800 dpi vs. 3200 dpi for the 3200. This is important when scanning film smaller than 4x5, because the extra resolution will be an advantage for higher quality output (especially oversize prints). If you just plan post images on the web, save your money. If you plan on other uses including printing images or oversize contact negatives, the higher quality will weigh in. Interestingly, when scanning 4x5 with the 4870, the scanner only permits a 16 bit scan up to 3200 dpi anyway (with a resulting file size of 1 gig!)
    2. ICE adds quite a bit of time to the scanning process (a 45 minute 16 bit scan of a 4x5 piece of film becomes 5 hours), but it saves an inordinate amount of manual labor spotting out dust that is attracted to the film and scanner bed spoiling continuous tone areas of sky and water. With my computer, the scanner operates in the background, so the extra time is less of an issue. I also ease the pain by starting a scan just before heading off to bed, so that it is waiting for me in the morning.
    3. Is ICE and increased resolution enough to justify a higher price? That depends on what your time is worth and what sort of budget you have. Regarding price, it is not necessary to purchase the PRO model of the 4870, which just includes more unnecessary software options. The standard EPSON driver that comes with the basic 4870 is a terrific program that is easy to use and produces wonderful scans.

    Some final notes:
    A dedicated film scanner will typically outperform a flatbed. So scanning your 35mm shouldn’t be factored into your decision if you have access to a film scanner.

    Charles Cramer uses the 4870 to proof his 4x5 color negatives, a task he feels the scanner performs better than even the $65,000 TANGO for a variety of reasons. First, there is less apparent grain. Second, the software seems to generate more accurate colors from his negatives, and last, it is very convenient to drop a 4x5 negative into a film holder and plop it on a flatbed than wet-mount the same film for the TANGO. I will say, he still finds the TANGO superior for scanning transparency film, but notes the discernable gap in quality is narrowing daily with advances in consumer technology.

    So as you consider the purchase, ask yourself what size film you will be scanning, what the intended use for the scan will be (web or print), if it is a print, how large will it be, and finally, how much is your time worth?

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