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  1. #1

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    Need help with scanning to post in the APUG galleries!

    Hold it... before the moderators lock the thread and I get shoved off to the hybrid forum (or worse!)

    I take analogue photographs on negative stock and printed with an enlarger onto paper, honest

    But... I'd like to upload some images to the gallery. Like it or not, at this point they have to become digital files...

    I have a flat bed scanner and a digital camera but frankly haven't got very good digitised versions of my prints with either. Also... what filesize, format resolution etc. is recommended?

    Is there a help file or section of the forum about this?

    I couldn't find anything.

    Thanks
    Steve

  2. #2
    jovo's Avatar
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    The reason you've found nothing is that, indeed, such matters are not discussed here. I suggest you look in the galleries for other (and there are many) photographers who scan their trannies, or negatives and PM the people whose work you like. I'm sure you'll get the help you're looking for in that way, but our charter doesn't permit such a thread on this forum.

    I think, btw, that the specs for uploads are described when you use the upload an image function which will include file size, and image size. Click on "View Allowed Extensions and Sizes"
    Last edited by jovo; 04-23-2010 at 08:19 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  3. #3
    Rick A's Avatar
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    I just scan my prints on an HP all in one unit for posting here. Its not high tech, but it works fine for my needs. It was cheap, and now I have extra money for consumables, and an extra camera if I desire. As to sizes, I guess my HP Image Zone sets the size needed to post here.
    Rick A
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    BTW: the big kid in my avatar is my hero, my son, who proudly serves us in the Navy. "SALUTE"

  4. #4
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven_e007 View Post
    I have a flat bed scanner and a digital camera but frankly haven't got very good digitised versions of my prints with either. Also... what filesize, format resolution etc. is recommended?
    Can't comment on what is "recommended", but I scan 10x8 prints at 300dpi. After cropping and making any minor adjustments to colour and/or contrast, down-res to around 800x600. I then upload the final images to a server as plain old jpegs with about 75% compression. Sometimes I have to clone out a dust spot, but that is as far as I go.

  5. #5
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    Try the hybrid photography website www.hybridphoto.com

  6. #6
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Discussion of scanning just for the practical matter of posting images in the galleries is permitted, so as long as the topic stays there (I've updated the thread title to promote that) and doesn't get into the more involved questions of what scanner to buy or digital printing, the thread is okay. If there are good answers, maybe we can make it a sticky to discourage the proliferation of such threads.

    Generally for the APUG galleries images should be in JPEG format (GIF is also accepted), no larger than 850x750 pixels, in sRGB colorspace, and no larger than 512 Kb. Sometimes images that are within the maximum size in pixels will be too large in Kb, so you may need to use more compression (lower quality) or post a smaller image. I tend to post images that are 650 pixels on the long dimension, unless they are panoramic formats, and then I'll go 850 pixels.

    If you are scanning prints, I'd recommend scanning at 300 dpi, and then adjusting the curve or levels so that the image on your screen looks like the print in your hand, spotting if necessary (since scanning or duping is another place for dust to get in), downsizing to the size you plan to post at in the gallery, and then sharpening the image slightly to compensate for JPEG compression and the effects of scanning and resizing. I usually work on the image in TIF format and save as JPG as the last step after sharpening, because JPEG compression is lossy, so each time a JPEG is saved data is lost.

    Some paper surfaces don't scan well, and prints need to be as flat as possible for good results with a flatbed scanner. If you are getting a lot of surface artifacts with the flatbed, you may be better with your digital camera on a copy stand or a tripod with a lateral arm using standard copy techniques (search for the many threads on copying flat art), and possibly cross polarization if the print isn't flat enough to avoid reflections or if the paper surface is very textured.
    Last edited by David A. Goldfarb; 04-23-2010 at 08:44 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  7. #7
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    Steve,

    First thing to know is that the electronic image and the paper image will never look the same, never ever. The mediums are as fundamentally different.

    A couple ideas.

    1 - The scanner and the paper have different "ranges" that need to be adjusted. Simply put the scanner doesn't see the paper as white or your deepest shadows as black. I don't use the scanner's "auto" settings for this correction. Once it is scanned, you can use any image editing software you please to set the black point and white point. (Some software packages have a dedicated function for this others use curves or levels or ...) This will probably fix about 80-90% of your problem.

    2 - The second major problem is that of sizing and sharpening. To understand this problem you need to understand that the unit of measure that matters is "a pixel".

    PIXELS PER INCH (ppi and similarly dpi) IS ONLY A CONVERSION FACTOR NOT A MEASUREMENT.

    Scanning an 8x10 at 300ppi gets you an image that is 2400 pixels down one edge (8x300) and 3000 pixels down the other (10x300).

    The finished images you can display here at APUG are no larger than 850x750 pixels. (Notice, there is nothing there about "inches")

    Computer monitors can only display a fixed number of pixels/dots i.e. 1024x768 and the ppi/dpi will normally be say 96 or 72, not 300.

    Your 2400x3000 pixel (8x10) will display on my computer screen at 25"x31.25" at it's "natural" screen resolution of 96 ppi laptop, even bigger on my 72 ppi CRT. So I won't be able to see the whole picture on the screen at 100%. There simply are not enough dots on a normal monitor to do it.

    As we scrunch our 2400x3000 pixel images down to be able to see the whole picture our computers start averaging and guessing to display an image "close" to ours. This process is riddled with averaging errors that lead to lousy looking stuff.

    The best you can do, once you have set you B&W points is to use your editing software to re-size the image to no larger than 850x750 pixels. View the image at exactly 100%, no more, no less, and set your sharpening to your taste.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  8. #8
    MattKing's Avatar
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    One thing that caught me a few times before I figured it out - APUG will accept images sized to 850x750, but not 750x850. In other words, images that are in portrait orientation may have a maximum long dimension up to just 750 pixels, while images in landscape orientation may have a maximum long dimension up to 850 pixels.

    The maximum file size for APUG galleries is 512KB. The acceptable image formats are jpg, jpeg, gif and png.

    Here is a link to the allowable extensions and sizes:

    http://www.apug.org/gallery1/upload....nsions#cat_500

    For APUG, scanning from slides is fine. For APUG, scanning from prints is preferable, but scanning from negatives is acceptable.
    Last edited by MattKing; 04-23-2010 at 11:54 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Matt

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  9. #9

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    Thanks guys, there is a lot of useful info in there.

    I am a bit of a luddite, I only use full analogue techniques to make prints. Yes, I have a digital camera, I use it to take snaps for websites, to take pictures of shutters and lenses when I dismantle them (in case I can't get them back together...) and yes I take pictures of the kids to email to people. But, I never dabble with hybrid photography. Never done it, not interested. I own a scanner but only use it for documents (copying my expenses receipts ;-) I've never scanned my negatives (I don't have a negative scanner...) and I never print digitally - not even the pics of the kids.

    Consequently... I'm pretty useless at this stuff. I suspect those who dabble with a touch of the hybrids may be the one who take to the gallery the easiest.

    So... ironically, any reluctance to discuss making digital images for uploading would disadvantage those like me, who are the most traditional and least interested (and competent) at digital.

    I'm glad therefore Dave allowed a thread on this. I think a sticky of some of the advice given here could be advantageous. It is certainly useful to me.
    Steve

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Discussion of scanning just for the practical matter of posting images in the galleries is permitted, so as long as the topic stays there (I've updated the thread title to promote that) and doesn't get into the more involved questions of what scanner to buy or digital printing, the thread is okay. If there are good answers, maybe we can make it a sticky to discourage the proliferation of such threads.
    Generally for the APUG galleries images should be in JPEG format (GIF is also accepted), no larger than 850x750 pixels, in sRGB colorspace, and no larger than 512 Kb. Sometimes images that are within the maximum size in pixels will be too large in Kb, so you may need to use more compression (lower quality) or post a smaller image. I tend to post images that are 650 pixels on the long dimension, unless they are panoramic formats, and then I'll go 850 pixels.

    If you are scanning prints, I'd recommend scanning at 300 dpi, and then adjusting the curve or levels so that the image on your screen looks like the print in your hand, spotting if necessary (since scanning or duping is another place for dust to get in), downsizing to the size you plan to post at in the gallery, and then sharpening the image slightly to compensate for JPEG compression and the effects of scanning and resizing. I usually work on the image in TIF format and save as JPG as the last step after sharpening, because JPEG compression is lossy, so each time a JPEG is saved data is lost.

    Some paper surfaces don't scan well, and prints need to be as flat as possible for good results with a flatbed scanner. If you are getting a lot of surface artifacts with the flatbed, you may be better with your digital camera on a copy stand or a tripod with a lateral arm using standard copy techniques (search for the many threads on copying flat art), and possibly cross polarization if the print isn't flat enough to avoid reflections or if the paper surface is very textured.
    exellent idea, i asked a similar question a couple of days ago here, and cut it of with a thanks as soon as i had `just the basics' in the first reply. However, this thread already has about all the info required and the questions on this subject will keep coming. Hybrid `looks' a little too involved for those of us that want just a basic overveiw of the requirements. If you go with a sticky then at least any new posts concerning scans to APUG can be directed to the sticky. Something like a dummies quide to simple scanning.
    regards
    CW

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