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  1. #21

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    I didn't notice mention of using acid free boards other than that of the old Light Impression Westminster boards. Which I used to use as well in the natural white and bright white. Since then I switched to the Print File (APUG supporter) products which meet archival standards. They are located in Florida and ship very promptly. You may want to check out their website.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

  2. #22
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    Addressing Vaughn's point a bit.

    One of the matt's you are using is not an archival matt and it seems to me that you are striving for excellence in printing with some of the threads I have been part of of late.
    Today and for a few years to come that matt does not present any issues towards your print so if it is for short term display then my concern does not matter.
    But if you plan to hang that print and not touch , in about 30 years the materials could indeed start attacking your image. The same apply's if you are using cardboard in your frame or even masking tape.

    At our frame shop we have no coloured matts and it has been a very rare time a client has pushed us to use one, actually I cannot remember the last time.
    What surrounds your image can/will possibly cause damage to a perfectly processed silver print.

    When I first started making silver prints , I had absolutely no clue about framing and some of the prints I gave my brothers and father have been reframed 35 years later and the damage bad framing has been seen , the main culprit is cardboard as a packing substrate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    Nicely done, tho it seems unfortunate that the "almond" board is not solidly colored and has instead a white core. A bit picky of me, and probably really not a real issue -- just something that caught my eye.

  3. #23

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    I didn't notice mention of using acid free boards other than that of the old Light Impression Westminster boards. Which I used to use as well in the natural white and bright white. Since then I switched to the Print File (APUG supporter) products which meet archival standards. They are located in Florida and ship very promptly. You may want to check out their website.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffreyg View Post
    I didn't notice mention of using acid free boards other than that of the old Light Impression Westminster boards. Which I used to use as well in the natural white and bright white. Since then I switched to the Print File (APUG supporter) products which meet archival standards. They are located in Florida and ship very promptly. You may want to check out their website.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/
    There are many different levels of archival mat boards. The lowest level are paper mat boards which are considered suitable only for "decorative" framing, not conservative framing. A level up from that are mat boards mat of alpha cellulose. The Bainbridge Alphamat is such a mat board. It is acid and lignin free, and uses Artcare technology that allows it to actually neutralize acidic compounds entering the framing package. It is a little more achival than most other alpha cellulose mat boards. It is laminated with a color surface paper that has dye's that you would not use for museum quality framing but the surface paper is not in contact with the print. This is also the reason that the bevel on the core is not the same color as the surface. The primary mat board being referred to was the Bainbridge Alpharag Pearl White. This is the highest level of protection you can get, and a little better than the Westmister which is also very good. The Alpharag board is composed of cotton which is naturally inert. The board is acid free, lignin free and only very safe dyes are used. That is why the color selection of the musuem rag mat board is so limited and you never see any bright colors. It is also treated with the Artcare process and since Bainbridge purchased exclusive rights to the technology no other mat board companies can offer it. This board is composed of cotton layers that are dyed which is why the color will be uniform from the surface to back. All of these mat boards are buffered with calcium carbonate which helps make them even less acidic. Paper mat boards are often buffered also and then sold as acid free, however, since the substrate is naturally acidic they will return to being acid when the buffering wears off. I dont know how long that takes, but the general guideline I have heard is that if you want it to last longer than 5 years with no noticible damage, do not use paper mat boards.

    Cheers,
    Mark

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Addressing Vaughn's point a bit.

    One of the matt's you are using is not an archival matt and it seems to me that you are striving for excellence in printing with some of the threads I have been part of of late.
    Bob?

    Do you see something I don't? I use all archival quality materials. The mat board I purchased locally were of acid-free, archival quality boards. They are made by Crescent and I use their SELECT series.

    http://crescentpro.com/select.html
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  6. #26
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    Our rule of thumb is that coloured boards are not archival, my observations are based on that alone, you may be purchasing archival boards but we have used coloured mats only a couple of times in over 12 years and maybe the selections today are considered archival. I have not looked into the Crescent line for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Bob?

    Do you see something I don't? I use all archival quality materials. The mat board I purchased locally were of acid-free, archival quality boards. They are made by Crescent and I use their SELECT series.

    http://crescentpro.com/select.html

  7. #27

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    I read your post and Mark's post carefully, then went to Crescent's site again.

    I understand that ones with less bright colors and ones that are colored all the way through are perhaps more archival than others. Crescent says their Select boards all meet the current archival and conservation standards. Having no ways to test this myself, I will have to take vendor's word for it.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  8. #28
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    Crescent Select:

    Produced using only 100% virgin alpha-cellulose
    fibers for lasting quality.

    Acid-free and lignin-free for maximum artwork protection.

    Above is from their website -- so I would say that its archival properties are not as good as a cotton based board.

    Also from their website about their cotton based board:

    Cotton is nature's purest form of cellulose. It is inherently free of lignin, acid and other non-cellulose contaminants found in wood pulp. Cotton fiber pulp is reliable, sturdy and far superior to bleached, chemically processed wood pulp used to produce other conservation boards.

    And then on the same page they state: "Only cotton should touch the art"
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  9. #29
    fdi
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    I read your post and Mark's post carefully, then went to Crescent's site again.

    I understand that ones with less bright colors and ones that are colored all the way through are perhaps more archival than others. Crescent says their Select boards all meet the current archival and conservation standards. Having no ways to test this myself, I will have to take vendor's word for it.
    It is very hard to get real good data on this because there are too many variables. What I have noticed is that custom framers will almost never use paper mats (wood pulp) to frame anything because even though customers want it framed cheap, they dont want the customer suing them because the artwork was permanently damaged in few years. They will however use alpha-cellulose products such as the Crescent Select and the Bainbridge Alphamat. A believe that this type of mat is generally considered good for a lifetime. A museum will mostly use Museum Rag mat board because they need the artwork to be good for many lifetimes. My guess (and this is a guess) is that many customer framers would have no problem using alpha-celluslose mat boards on limited edition artwork, but will hesitate if it is one of a kind, and hesitate even more if it is very valuable one of kind artwork that future generations of family are looking forward to inheriting. Of course if it is limited edition but at price points over $1K per edition, then it will make sense to consider Rag even though it is not limited edition.

    As far as our customers are concerned, most of them selling their work will use Alpha-cellulose except those selling in more at the flea-market level than artshow or gallery level. Flea market price points demand inexpensive paper mat to maintain margins. We also sell a lot of rag mat but it is roughly double the cost of alpha-cellulose so it is mostly going to be photographers that are able to sell their work at the higher price points so they can maintain their margins.

    I have noticed that a lot pre-framed artwork at department stores such as bed-bath-and-beyond used mat board with a cream colored core. This indicates that it is not only paper mat board, but the least expensive paper mat board. It will also have a cardboard backing which is full of acid.

  10. #30

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    Mark,

    Thank you. I am thinking, from reading product literature and listening to you and Bob (who do this for business), my use of Crest Select or Bainbridge Alphamat is sufficiently good enough. If I had ready access to better materials, I wouldn't hesitate to use them and at the quantity I am needing, price difference plays minor role in decision making.

    I use all 3 types of mats you sell but I only use paper mat for very limited purposes such as showing someone my portfolios. I never permanently mount anything in these. In fact, all of them have photo corners and they are tossed when they get dirty.

    It'll be really great if you can figure out a way to ship small quantity of mat boards inexpensively then I'd buy from your rag board each and every time. I'm sure you've already tried though. Right now, I'm limited to what I can buy locally. Anyway, thank you for the education.

    By the way, I spent 6 weeks and many MANY hours of work on this print stressing over every step. In the big scheme of things; however, I doubt there is any value to my prints. So far, no museums have called and my phone has been turned on...
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

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