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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    . The $200 they gave me was $100 less than they promised... but I felt good helping them out and they still (4 or 5 years later) compliment me on both the kind act and the nice photos.
    Was the $100 less than they promised maybe a charge for making you feel good?.

    If I had paid you 33% less than I'd promised I'd still be complimenting you 10 years later

    pentaxuser

  2. #22

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    The last time I worked weddings was 1999. I was paid $40/hr, the fellow I was working for supplied the cameras and film. All I did was go to the wedding, take pictures, and hand the film and equipment back to the studio's owner.

  3. #23
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    When my stepsister got remarried, my wedding gift to her was a set of framed photos of her kids plus an 11x14 print of her wedding portrait. All for free. (Of course! It was a gift! ) For several weeks before the wedding, I kept my camera close by at all times during any family gathering and took candids of the kids. During the wedding, I shot over the hired photographer's shoulder. (I knew the photographer. He was my uncle. He knew what I was doing. He was okay with it. I made sure I stayed in the background, letting him take the lead on everything. I was basically just the "backup guy.") Over the span of about a month, I shot five or six rolls of film plus another three rolls at the wedding. I spent a couple of weeks in the darkroom, printing pictures in my spare time.I ended up with four 5x7s of the kids plus the 11x14. The 5x7s went into a 4-opening collage frame. The 11x14 in its own frame.Right there, the project would probably be worth $250 to $300 on the "Friends and Family" discount. If it was work for hire, I'd ask $500 and accept $400 after bargaining. On top of that, I my wife, my brother and stepbrother had cameras at the wedding. One of them had a video camera.All of that material, the video, the digi-pics and the scanned traditional pictures got edited into a video & slide show and burned onto a DVD.The whole package, the framed traditional pictures, the digi-pics, the video and everything would probably be worth $750 to $1,000 for anybody else but, for family, I would never think of charging a penny. That doesn't mean that I can't, politely and calmly tell them how much their gift might be worth. I wouldn't tell them at the time the gift is presented but, certainly in conversation some time after.They have the right to know the value of what they are getting. Don't they? I think so. Furthermore, if any of her friends see my work, they might like to know how much I would charge to do a similar job for them. After all that, I still have the negatives and retain all the rights to them. Even though I would never allow them to be widely published without asking first, I still maintain those pictures in my portfolio and show them to people who want to see my work. Should I have occasion to display those pictures in a gallery setting, I certainly would tell my stepsister that I'm doing it but I feel no obligation to get explicit permission to do so unless I expected to sell any of those images. After all, I spent time money and energy to make those pictures int he first place. I deserve to recover something for my work even if it is only artistic recognition. Immediate family and close friends just get photos for free or at cost. I don't even think about it. If they asked me for a special favor the maximum I'd ask is cost plus beer money. For ordinary friends and coworkers, I'd figure up an actual cost then figure in the "Friends and Family" discount which varies depending on how much I like them and how much time I have to do the project. Anybody else pays my price, take it or leave it. For CDs, they are always at an extra cost. A minimum of $50.All those pictures are compressed JPEGS, 300 pixels, at the largest. They are all DigiMarked. They all have my name and copyright info in the metadata. I also include a "ReadMe" text file at the root directory of the CD with my name, address, image descriptions and copyright statement. If anybody wants anything more than that, they pay more. A likely cost will be $100 and up. IF they want a copyright release it will cost them $250 (or more) ON TOP OF the cost of the CD as it would be without the release. Even then, I still maintain possession of the copyright. I only give them permission to use the images for their own purpose. All of that would be included in the "ReadMe" file mentioned above. This, I learned from my time working for the Picture People studio in the local shopping mall, two Christmas seasons ago. We always had people trying to use those CDs to make end-runs around paying the studio for reprints. It was stupid because we ALWAYS had coupons, discount specials or frequent customer bonuses that would let them get reprints for a price that was comparable to what they'd pay WalMart for reprints. If I liked a customer enough, I could usually "stack" discounts and coupons so that they could get reprints for $1.00 or even free. But, no! There were always people who tried to get something for nothing. Those are "always" the same people who call you back and complain that they get crappy prints off their inkjet or bitch because WalMart refuses to reprint pictures off those CDs. Bottom line: Yes, do something nice for your customers if you like them and make them a CD but don't let them treat you like a doormat just because they have "digital copies" of those pictures.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    When you do provide it, make sure the images are SMALL. Like 300 pixels horizontally.
    You want pictures that she can look at on her screen or post on Facebook but you don't want her to be able to print out full size images that she could be coming back to you for.

    ALSO, put your name, address and copyright statement in the metadata! If she's going to post your pictures on Facebook (et. al.) you'll want your name attached to them. 99% of the people out there don't even know what metadata is, let alone how to strip your name out of it.
    For sure, always put EXIF in your digital copies. While most customers have no idea how to strip metadata, Facebook does it by default! In fact, I'm not sure it's possible to keep the metadata in images on FB.

    When I do jobs like this for friends, I generally put a "give credit" condition if the images are to be posted online because I know that it would otherwise be stripped. Having to manually acknowledge your work will generally make people value your efforts more than having to pay a few dollars for materials. The purpose of it isn't to give you advertising (because really, no one is going to look at the photo and think "I shall hire that person!") but to link, in the long term, your name with your efforts in the mind of your customer/friend. It's the difference between "oh, that was yours?" and "remember those awesome photos you took" ten years later.

  5. #25
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    Copyright information can be contained both in the EXIF data and in the IPTC data. IPTC data are more comprehensive and I suggest to compile the relevant fields also in the IPTC data. IPTC fields are probably less likely to be stripped than EXIF fields. (EXIF fields serve mainly to contain information about the device, such as the scanner, while IPTC fields have the exact purpose to contain information about the image and the photographer).
    IPTC fields exist in various flavours: for being a standard, it definitely it is not standardised. Even the label of the fields is not standardised. Anyway there are two fields, "Photographer" and "Copyright" which should be compiled always. You may also find fields "Photographer URL" and various other fields with contact information of the photographer. Depends on the IPTC implementation of your application and the IPTC "revision" the application is taking into consideration.

    I would also embed a small visible watermark on the lower right corner of the scan. That will not detract from the image and will sign your work. Or you can make a frame around the image with the signature on the lower right corner.

    Prints would be signed on the back with a pencil as customary.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  6. #26
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    and most importantly, that you retain copyright and laying out the license that you grant with the prints you supply. Doesn't matter if it's your mother or brother or whatever as customer, rights need to be nailed down (duration, resale, sublicensing, replicas/backups, display, etc) precisely even if you're ultimately generous in what you grant.
    When I do photography for friends, I sign all rights over to them. I can't see the point in keeping hold of the copyright to images which can never be of any value to me.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  7. #27
    polyglot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    When I do photography for friends, I sign all rights over to them. I can't see the point in keeping hold of the copyright to images which can never be of any value to me.

    Steve.
    Fair enough too. I retain copyright but grant unlimited non-commercial use.

  8. #28
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Copyright is virtually intangible. You can't see it or touch it. Copyright is more like a property or an attribute of an image.

    As such, it is important for you to make clear your intentions regarding the copyright status of every image you create.

    95% of all work that I produce is tagged, "No use without permission." However, I let the definition of the word, "permission" be a little bit fluid.
    For close friends and family, permission to copy an image is almost implicit but not to sell or for commercial use.
    For ordinary friends, permission is not implicit but is almost always granted if asked for. Again, not for sale or commercial use.
    For anybody else, they need to contact me BEFORE doing anything with the image and the two conditions I ask for are attribution and non-commercial use.
    On a few occasions, I have made electronic/digital art via computer that I have released under the Creative Commons "Attribution/Non-commercial/Share-Alike" license. Those images are clearly marked in the EXIF/metadata and watermarked in the image.

    On one occasion, a friend at work copied one of my pictures and I found out about it. I wasn't mad, per se, but I did kind of poke him in the shoulder and said, "Oh, c'mon! I would have copied that for you if you asked me!"

    Just because you give a picture to a friend doesn't mean you give up the copyright.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  9. #29
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    I've done a few sittings like this, and I too refuse to take any money beyond my costs. Had I had a professional portrait service, all would be different of course.

    It's fun to do, good practice, and if you pay attention and do a good job, it's rewarding too.

    I make them pay for film, chemistry, water, paper, electricity, my time, presentation materials, CDRs, albums, etc. All of it. Then I make it up to them to throw in some tip, if they're happy.

    I have an event like this coming up this weekend. Two rolls of Portra 800 120 and one roll of Portra 160 35mm, processing, scanning, CDs, prints, etc - I make the lab scan all of the frames, and then I pick the five I'm most happy with and make high res scans at home. Depending on what you charge for your time, and how much you want to get in return on your investment in software, computers, scanners, darkroom supplies and equipment, etc, it can vary from 70-80 up to several hundred dollars what your cost is. It matters whether you have an Epson V700 scanner or an Imacon Flextight, for example. Or if you have a Pentax K1000 or a Leica M7 with a $5k lens on it. Etc.

    Establishing exactly how much you spend in materials and time will help you a lot in setting a fee for your services.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #30
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    Just because you give a picture to a friend doesn't mean you give up the copyright.
    Unless you want to.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

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