I gave some neighbours who asked me to a M/F slide show on a 50"X50" screen, they had just bought a top of the range digital SLR, they asked what camera I shot the slides with it with, I showed them my 25year old Mamiya C330F TLR, and it really pissed them off.
Originally Posted by JBrunner
There were a lot of slide projectors in the 50's and early 60's that had changeable single-slide shuttles–35 or 2 1/4. I have one somewhere- they're pretty cheap if you can find them.
That's true Whitey but the problem with many of them in my experience is they have Tungsten illumination and produce yellow/orange light and their lamp houses tend to leak light where more modern versions use Quartz Iodine lamps that give much whiter and brighter illumination.
Originally Posted by Whiteymorange
I was recently given an old projector which can take both 35mm and 6 * 6 slides. The holder for 6*6 slides takes two slides at once, so doing a whole slide show would be a faltering process.
I have about 20 slide mounts, but most of my medium format E6 images are 6*7, so I'm planning to put some Velvia and Provia through a Yashicamat to get some images and try out the projector, just for an experiment.
Originally Posted by JBrunner
sorry for being late here in your thread. I've overlooked it in December.
you think right: MF slide projection is the bomb!!
The most impressive picture quality photography has to offer. It is absolutely a league of its own.
I am doing slide projection for more than 30 years now, and I will never stop doing it.
Well, as some of you know, we’re running a small non-profit optical test lab here.
And we’ve done lots of detailed tests concerning slide film (colour and BW) and slide projection, as well as evaluating the performance of beamers.
Tests results from our team:
We have tested all the films with a relative low object contrast of 1:4 (two stops). Lenses were Nikkor AI-S 1,8/50 (long barrel version) and Zeiss ZF 2/50 at f5,6 (and some others as well).
Both lenses have the same performance in the center at f4 and f5,6, but the Zeiss is generally better at the corners and at f2.
Some test results from our resolution tests (Nikon F6, MLU, MC-30, 1/250s, focus bracketing, Zeiss ZF 2/50, f5,6, Nikkor AI-S 1,8/50, object contrast 1:4; Berlebach Report 3032.
The first resolution value represents the number of clearly separated lines, the second one the resolution limit where still a contrast difference can be seen.
Resolution is dependant on the object contrast of the detail you have focused at: with higher object contrast, you would get higher resolution than our test results [see the tests published by Zeiss], and lower object contrast would result in lower resolution values):
Fuji Velvia 50: 110 – 125 Lp/mm
Fuji Sensia 100: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
Fuji Provia 100F: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
Fuji Astia 100F: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
Fuji Velvia 100: 125 – 140 Lp/mm
Fuji Velvia 100F: 125 – 140 Lp/mm
Kodak E100G: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
Kodak Elitechrome 100: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
Fuji Provia 400X: 105 – 115 Lp/mm
Agfa Copex Rapid; ISO 64/19°; Agfa Scala BW reversal process : 165 – 180 Lp/mm.
Adox CMS 20 II; ISO 20/14°; Agfa Scala BW reversal process: 230 – 245 lp/mm
Mamiya 645 Pro TL with Mamiya-Sekor C 2,8/80 N, f5,6; same object contrast of 1:4 = two stops.
Fuji Provia 100F: 115 – 125 lp/mm
Agfa Copex Rapid, Scala Reversal process: 130 – 145 lp/mm
Adox CMS 20 II; Scala reversal process: 195 – 210 lp/mm
And, with excellent projection lenses you can transfer the above listed resolution values with only a minimal (not relevant) loss onto the projection screen!
We've tested several projection lenses, e.g. the Leica Super-Colorplan P2 2,5/90, Zeiss P-Sonnar T 2,5/90, Doctor-Optics / Kindermann 2,4/90 MC-B, Rollei Apogon 2,8/120.
With all these lenses we could transfer the 120 lp/mm of E100G, Elitechrome 100, Provia 100F, Sensia 100, Astia 100F onto the screen!
Same with the 165 lp/mm of Agfa Copex Rapid and the 230 lp/mm of Adox CMS 20 II as BW-Slide (developed in Scala reversal process)!
120 lp/mm in 35mm format: That is an equivalent of 50 Megapixels. You need a 50 MP beamer to get the same detail at this object contrast. The 165 lp/mm of Agfa Copex Rapid are equivalent to 94 MP, for the Adox a 200 MP equivalent would be needed.
Looking at 35mm slide projection with an excellent projection lens, then the quality is even surpassing digital medium format projected with a beamer. Because the imaging chain film + projection is much, much better than the digital imaging chain digital file + beamer. The beamer is the very weak part in this imaging chain and decreases the quality of the file to a big extent. From your 40,50, 60 or 80 MP only 1,2,4 or max 8 MP (most expensive gear) remain as beamer output (and with beamers you also have the problem that the resolution is even 40% less in vertical format).
Concerning colour rendition the current beamers also cannot compete with the much more precise and natural color rendition of the slides.
Therefore in the field of projection we indeed have the situation, that 35mm film is significantly surpassing all digital formats (including medium format) in picture quality.
And of course in costs. 35mm slide projection is dirt cheap in comparison.
And of course with medium format slide projection, using excellent lenses (camera and projection), you can significantly surpass the already outstanding 35mm performance:
Well, the 115 lp/mm of the Sekor 2,8/80 / Provia 100F combination (see above), projected e.g. with the 2,8/120 Apogon with the Rollei 66 dual P:
120 MP on the screen.
155 MP with the Agfa Copex Rapid.
350 MP with the Adox CMS 20 II.
It’s incredible what outstanding picture quality medium format slide projection is giving us.
Well, best “sex for the eyes “
For big enlargements slide projection delivers an unsurpassed quality. And at extremely low costs ( a projected slide on a 2 m x 2 m screen cost me less than one Euro, a print of the same size cost me more than two hundred Euros).
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So.... where can I get one of those free medium-format projectors you're basing your pricing on?
Originally Posted by Henning Serger
I'd project slides if I could but I shoot 6x7, cannot afford a Goetschmann and haven't seen a good price on something secondhand in Australia. I have vague plans to build one from some enlarger condensers, old RB/RZ lens and a HID lamp but haven't really got the time.
Originally Posted by polyglot
My projectors have already paid for themselves......
Well for used medium format slide projectors I recommend looking at online auction sources in Germany. Because of the popularity of slide projection in Germany you have better chances to find one on the German market.
Or contact some distributors who sell also used gear, like
Excellent source for new projectors:
Slide projectors like a Götschmann, the Leica projectors or the Rollei 66 dual P are very robust build gear. They last more than a lifetime, even our children can use them when we pass away.
They are a "once in a lifetime" purchase.
Therefore even a new Rollei or Götschmann is very cheap if you consider
- their lifespan
- the outstanding picture quality you get
- the much much higher costs of digital projection.
For 6x7 the best option are indeed the Götschmann projectors. But it is almost impossible to find one used. Fortunately they are still produced new (but of course nobody knows for how long...).
Originally Posted by polyglot
They are so hard to find because
- those who have one keep it and protect it like a treasure
- only about 2700 samples have been built so far; it is like Rolls-Royce.....;-)
But the Götschmann G 67 is not so expensive new (cheaper than lots of DSLRs):
Sometimes Gecko-Cam (they are now producing the Götschmann projectors, because Mr. Götschmann retired some years ago) is offering used models:
Sometimes the Pro Cabin 6x7 can be found used. But not as good as Götschmann.
For 4,5x6 and 6x6 it is a bit easier to find good projectors used. Sometimes the
- Hasselblad PCP
- Kindermann 66 T (for this projector the 2,8/150 lens is best; avoid the cheaper 3,0/150)
- Rollei P11; Rollei P66, Rolleivision 66, Rolleivision 66 AV
- Rollei 66 dual P
is offered used.
Fortunately the Rollei dual 66 P is still produced new. It is an excellent choice, the best projector in its class.
And very versatile, because it is a multi-format projector. It can be used for
- 35mm slides (24x36mm)
- 4x4 slides (so called "Super-Slides")