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  1. #21
    Terry Christian's Avatar
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    Tell her no. She is only entitled to your selects, not the entire shoot, and if she wants albums she can buy albums prepared by you from your selects.

  2. #22
    ted_smith's Avatar
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    Folks

    Lots of responses, thankyou.

    To put a bit more meat on the bones, the situation is, as some have pointed out, awkward.

    I am battling my need and desire to generate both portfolio examples and exposure to wider clients vs profit. At the moment, as my photography is a hobby really and I only make a little money here and there, I don't need the money as such but I am also concious that I do not want to cheapen my own work or that of the industry - digi shooters are doing that for us!

    This situation arose by their desire to have some nice pictures and they asked if I'd do it. If I hadn't had agreed, they'd have used some other commercial bozzo who'd do it for £50, and then he would not doubt get all the resulting word-of-mouth recommendations instead of me. And they are my best friends, but I have now learnt this was not such a good idea.

    Suffice to say that I explained everything we have said and likened it to buying an Aston Martin but then servicing it yourself using oil and spark plugs from Costco. She is 100% certain she wishes to buy 4 enlargements for her wall, which she understands need to be done from the negs. In fact, she's sent me the numbers already. So that's good. The onyl reason she wanted the proofs was for her to make her own little album to look throwugh now and again - no doubt it will seldom see the light of day, unlike the wall prints.

    So, all in all, not a bad resolve. Yes, she has the proofs and yes she will be printing them herself - hopefully if kept 6"x4" they won't look too horrid. But, if our friendship has stayed in tact and she has ordered some top notch versions for her walls, that will be seen by every visitor to her home, then on balance, I think its worked out OK.

    A lesson learned. I won't be doing it again I don't think and if I do, I'll treat it more formally, with a contract etc.

    Thanks for the advice guys.
    Ted Smith Photography
    Hasselblad 501CM...my 2nd love.

  3. #23
    Rick A's Avatar
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    It is a difficult situation at best. You want to do something nice for friends, but they dont think they should have to pay the going rate to a friend. If this is how you make a living, you need to explain to them that it would take food out of your familys mouth if you gave it away. I used to have this problem all the time as a contractor, everyone wanted me to work on their home or build cabinets for free. I learned to politely turn them down. The only way to survive people like this is to just give them a taste for free. Never do more for friends than you can afford to throw away. This is a rough statement, but true. As for the "word of mouth" advertising, you would never see any good outcome from it. Truth is, they would brag about the price, and then every body else would demand the same from you (hey--you only charged ___ this much, how come i have to pay more?).
    Rick A
    Argentum aevum
    BTW: the big kid in my avatar is my hero, my son, who proudly serves us in the Navy. "SALUTE"

  4. #24
    foc
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    The fact the "client" wanted a small album shows there is a desire for your images. The fact that they are your selection only or all those shot makes no differance. The customer had expressed a desire for a product. Now it's up to you to fulfill that desire.

    One important point to remember when dealing with the public, paying or otherwise, is to look at what your are offering from their point of view.

    Your customer has given you a very good lesson in dealing with the public and their perceptions and expectations of portraiture (or wedding etc) photographery. Remember they don't see the different quality between 35mm and 120 (for example) or professional quality or not (no disrespect but they did ask you and not a professional) In their eyes you have a big/professional looking camera and your photos come out so you are ok!

    All they are interest in is: do I look alright.....I'm not too dark/light......I'm not too far away/too close......My big nose/ears/head/belly/backside looks ok really......My partner and children look ok...... etc.

    The lesson I would take from this is never show or give any prints that you wouldn't release yourself. Since they will try to copy your small/proof prints I would do as suggested already and include a proof of all images for a set fee.
    Included in this fee I would provide three minialbums, one for parents, one each for grandparents. ( "don't need that many well sorry that's how they come ." " I can give you two but it will only save you X, a very small amount, three is the best value.") (you get my drift)
    Also include the wall photos in the fee and get paid up front and if not, 75% of final cost as deposit. If they wont pay then they are not really interested. The customer must put their money where their mouth is.

    BTW the mini album is the best marketing tool you can have. Make sure if will fit into a handbag and keep it simple but expensive looking (not an album from the Euro discount shop0. Every mother and granny will product this album, at the drop of a hat, to show to friend etc. What better advert for your services can you get than this sort of endorsement. Oh and BTW be sure your name and phone number/website is shown at the start of the album.

    Sorry for being so long winded but I have been a professional photographer for the last 29 years and I hope I have learned a thing or two about photography but more inportantly how to deal with customers. The easy ones are sublime, the awkward ones a challange but if you can turn them from complainer/moaner/not happy camper to a satisfied customer (they are happy/you are happy) then they can become your best ambassadors.

  5. #25
    Truzi's Avatar
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    When I was in high school I wanted to be a magician. I was into it fairly deep, though had few paying shows; but I read a lot about how to try to make money.
    One theme kept resurfacing - don't cut your price. If you feel that a client truly can't afford your price, it is better to do it for free (charity) than have others learn you went for a lower rate than you normally ask.

    I know this isn't quite the same, as you have more consumables that cost money. From an advertising or reputation point of view, however, it may do more harm to have low-quality scans circulating or bad blood between you and your friend.

    Better to be (known for) doing a favor for a friend than get an undeserved reputation or having poor quality examples of your work in circulation.

    Since you are already in the situation, you may feel you are in "damage control" mode. There is no "good" answer as this is a difficult situation. If your friend does not "understand" your position, it may be better to produce a couple pocket-books for little or no cost - and find an excuse/occasion to make it a "gift." Charge for the large prints.
    You are trying to smooth the friendship as well as gain some potentially valuable portfolio material and advertising.
    Truzi

  6. #26
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    When I was in high school I wanted to be a magician. I was into it fairly deep, though had few paying shows; but I read a lot about how to try to make money.
    One theme kept resurfacing - don't cut your price. If you feel that a client truly can't afford your price, it is better to do it for free (charity) than have others learn you went for a lower rate than you normally ask.

    I know this isn't quite the same, as you have more consumables that cost money. From an advertising or reputation point of view, however, it may do more harm to have low-quality scans circulating or bad blood between you and your friend.

    Better to be (known for) doing a favor for a friend than get an undeserved reputation or having poor quality examples of your work in circulation.

    Since you are already in the situation, you may feel you are in "damage control" mode. There is no "good" answer as this is a difficult situation. If your friend does not "understand" your position, it may be better to produce a couple pocket-books for little or no cost - and find an excuse/occasion to make it a "gift." Charge for the large prints.
    You are trying to smooth the friendship as well as gain some potentially valuable portfolio material and advertising.
    What you write makes a lot of sense Truzi, but in my experiences in the past when I took some portraits of a friends kids and gave them to them as a gift, they showed them to all the members of the baby sitting circle they were in and told them that " they had this friend who did free child portraits, why don't you give him a call?".
    Ben

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