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  1. #11
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Yes, it's mentioned in the Framers forum thread to. Well, compared to that distributor price, which seams to be for about 5 sq. meter (as it is for a box of 5 sheets of 35x48 inch), it still remains the question if that new Claryl is actually significantly cheaper...

    I will try and ask tomorrow, when the shop owner is back, to get a real sense of the difference in retail price for an ordinary customer of a framing shop, if any...
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    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  2. #12
    Mark Fisher's Avatar
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    FYI - I did get an email back from them saying they hope to have US distribution in place in September. You can contact them to find someone close to you. I suggested that they also have an internet source like Frame Destination just to help those without a local framing shop.

  3. #13
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    So far the hype about cheaper anti-reflection coated framing glass... :rolleyes:

    I now spoke to the shop owner. He at first gave me a price of 150 Euro / sq meter, without tax~! This was including a fee for cutting. But he told me he needed to look it up properly for an exact price indication, and he is going to phone me on Monday.

    However, he also gave me a price of about 240 Euro / sq. meter for Tru Vue "museumglass" with the highest UV protection using a separate coating. Now, compared to that astronomical price, the Claryl may seem "cheap" :rolleyes: . But he also talked about Tru Vue anti-reflection coated glass, without UV coating, being about 175 Euro, meaning the Claryl (which also doesn't feature an UV coating), would be only a meagre 25 Euro/ sq. meter cheaper, so just 15%. DSM probably saved that on energy costs, as that is one of the main benefits in the new production process if I read it well...

    Anyway, I can hardly call that a price-breakthrough despite what DSM was claiming... I really had hoped for something better, as this type of glass is very desirable for BW photography...

    But if any other people have real world figures for the different comparative types of glasses, including Claryl, post it here, as this shop owner is always quite vague in his quotes to say the least...

    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  4. #14
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Fisher View Post
    FYI - I did get an email back from them saying they hope to have US distribution in place in September. You can contact them to find someone close to you. I suggested that they also have an internet source like Frame Destination just to help those without a local framing shop.
    Thanks Marco and Mark. I'll take another look around in September and see if I can purchase from any of our distributors.... and if so what the price is going to be here in the US. Shawn

  5. #15
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Guys, I now have some more definite, and I think relatively good news. The framing shop owner has given some new quotes, here they are:

    - Claryl: 100 euro / sq. meter
    - Tru Vue UV AR (70% UV blocking): 170 euro / sq. meter
    - Tru Vue Museumglass (98% UV blocking): 250 euro / sq. meter

    Please note that all of these glass types have the desirable high transmittance (>98.5%), low reflection (<1.5%) properties!

    Claryl, contrary to the other two glass types, doesn't feature a UV coating, and probably blocks only 30-40% of UV, but it does have the anti-reflection properties of museumglass...

    All prices include a small fee for cutting to size, but NO tax. (add 20% for a regular retail price).

    But it does seem Claryl might be a cheaper alternative than! (as long as you are not after high UV protection).

    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  6. #16
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update, Marco!

  7. #17
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Yes, it sounds good, however, if anyone can confirm the relative price differences (absolute prices can very greatly from country to country, the Netherlands is relative expensive, whereas the US tends to be quite a bit cheaper with many products), than that would still be great to hear...

    Post here if you have some real price quotes for the new Claryl versus other types of low reflection coated AR framing glasses.

    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  8. #18
    cmo
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    Some months ago I made a side-by-side comparison. In my eyes, there is a big difference between the Claryl glass and real "Schott" museum glass, branded "Mirogard". It is virtually invisible and does not change the look of an image at all. The Claryl is cheap but does not come close to this. It's something in between the real cheap "anti-reflective" glass and the real thing.
    Maximum UV protection will not be important for most applications: normally you show images inside a building. There are glass windows that already eliminate most UV light, then you have a second glass in front of the picture, and even the worst glass will filter most of the UV light.

    For my exhibitions with about 80 frames 60x80cm I could neither afford any of those, but at home I have my very best images behind museum glass. After having spent a fortune in a framing shop I found out that it is produced here in the city of Mainz in Germany:

    http://www.schott.com/special_applic...lass/mirogard/

    English:
    http://www.us.schott.com/architectur..._text=mirogard

    Maybe they sell directly, but probably such a factory will ask for a unit of trading that goes beyond an amount what an average photographer will ever think about.

  9. #19
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Hi CMO,

    Thanks for your input. I know how beautiful real expensive museumglass can be. I have four prints (two color, two B&W) hanging in my house framed behind museumglass. Like you say, the glass is virtually invisible, only a slight greenish tint of the coating can be seen under direct lighting in some cases.

    But it is just so expensive! Any cheaper alternative on the market that could do a much better job than standard glass, even if it is not "museum grade", I think is welcome.

    But I must admit I would like to see them site-by-site once too, to see how the new Claryl does. If I remember well, DSM states the glass to have a slightly less good anti reflection too, but still close to museumglass. And of course, there is the bleuish anti-reflection coating. But anti-reflection means a coating, and inevitably a coating means an ever so slightly visible colorcast (I have seen AR glasses with pinkish, green, and now with Claryl with bleuish tints).

    Anyway, if because of budget limitations the only alternatives are:

    - Ordinary framing glass
    - Sanded or chemically etched "anti-reflection" glass
    - Claryl

    I would go for Claryl instantly from what I have seen as a sample in the framing shop...

    But more experiences and opinions are welcome here!

    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  10. #20
    cmo
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    Well, I would expect that the margins of framing shops on museum glass are at least 30-50%. Maybe an omnibus order of several users would drive museum glass prices down enough to achieve acceptable prices :-)

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