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  1. #51
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    A rather Unpleasant post, part of a string of them in fact with probably only one fact of truth, you seem to be targeting the OP, taking out your own angst against her.

    In post #22 she tells you who she's working for, and the wage or hours cuts impossed by the State Governor.

    She's just paid for a workshop, so if I was her I'd be thinking of suing you for malicious libel. your words are in writing held on a US server.

    Beginners can sell prints, it's a lot harder but if work's good enough then it can happen.

    If she has the talent she could be exhibiting within a year, selling prints. It's pure luck.

    She's asking for help and advice, not vitriol.

    Ian
    I gave her my advice and it was the truth whether you like it or not. Nearly everyone else here who is an actual professional artist has said the same thing because, big surprise, we actually KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I wrote what I did to help her, but a lot of people who have no clue about what we're talking about have felt the need to interject a bunch of feelgood nonsense that is NOT going to help the OP in her situation.
    Last edited by chriscrawfordphoto; 07-26-2010 at 01:19 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

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  2. #52

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    Well I have to say the workshop I attended with an APUG member was one of the most valuable investments in my photgraphy I have ever made. I intend to participate in a few more as well. People I know and trust have attended the workshops and came away with new insights, techniques and tools. I am certain that most of us could list workshops that have truly made a difference for us.

    I find the blanket statement that "Workshops are playtime for rich amatuers and a way for professionals to fleece the rich." to be silly. If the "Fine Art Photographer" who made the comment has bad experiences with workshops it may be more a statement about his ability to choose wisely.

    If there are specific workshops that are rip-offs then maybe adress them but don't throw everyone under the bus.

    Thank you,

    Bob
    Best regards,

    Bob
    CEO-CFO-EIEIO, Ret.

  3. #53
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser View Post
    I agree with your first 3 points and am always amazed at people who just think their work will sell enough right away to make a living at it. But on point 4 I disagree. While there are galleries that will not talk to anyone, she has little to lose by contacting galleries for their advice. Some of the galleries in the larger cities might be less willing but when i took out my personal work I had little problem having NYC galleries look at my work and some even offered me representation. So you never know.....

    But back specifically to the original poster, if she's in economic hard times, she needs to get a job with health benefits and not spend time or money chasing a photographic dream.
    Do you live in NY or did you travel there to show your work. I suspect its easier for those who live there and can form connections with the right people. I lived in Santa Fe for a few years and out there the galleries have ZERO interest in anyone who isn't already nationally famous. I've had good luck getting into galleries in the midwest, but unfortunately very little sells from them. I sell more each year from my website than I did in 15 years combine of being represented by galleries and showing in exhibits. :o
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

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    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  4. #54

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    oh geez Ian, don't go telling him he has "angst" or he's really gonna go off about "you have to have that to be a professional artist" or some such thing...those actual professional artists are really touchy about anyone talking about stuff they don't really know about.

  5. #55
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter2010 View Post
    oh geez Ian, don't go telling him he has "angst" or he's really gonna go off about "you have to have that to be a professional artist" or some such thing...those actual professional artists are really touchy about anyone talking about stuff they don't really know about.
    You don't have to have angst to be a professional artist, that's a load of bull. I'm happier than most of you people are. I don't have to work for a living and I have my son with me and the freedom to do what I want with my life. I'm trying to help the OP because I is hard out there for beginners. It was hard for me a decade ago and I went through a lot of hardship before I finally built up enough business that I could say I have succeeded. I think the OP needs to be honestly told the facts of what most face out there doing fine art photography to make money. If she chooses to take those risks after hearing the facts, its on her, but if she listens to the bad, untruthful, frankly unethical advice that many here are giving, and she ends up not able to eat or worse, then what will you people say? You'll come up with every excuse why your fantasyland advice wasn't responsible for her failure. As for Ian, I about fell out of my chair laughing when he suggested the OP sue me for Libel. Grow up.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

    Become a fan of my work on Facebook

    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  6. #56
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    I gave her my advice and it was the truth whether you like it or not. Nearly everyone else here who is an actual professional artist has said the same thing because, big surprise, we actually KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I wrote what I did to help her, but a lot of people who have no clue about what we're talking about have felt the need to interject a bunch of feelgood nonsense that is NOT going to help the OP in her situation.

    Just remember that only last week someone was fired for what they wrote on a website.

    You've deliberately & repeatedly poured scorn on what you percieve the OP's current employment/financial position to be.

    My point was and still is that at no time have you given helpful advice at all.

    The renowned UK Landscape photographer Fay Godwin honed her skills on a workshop, she made a good living out of photography, with publishing deals and print sales. Later she mentored others and helped their careers along.

    The people I respect posting in this thread that make money from photography have ALL given helpful advice.

    Ian

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post

    The renowned UK Landscape photographer Fay Godwin honed her skills on a workshop, she made a good living out of photography, with publishing deals and print sales. Later she mentored others and helped their careers along.
    I haven't heard of her, so she can't be that renowned.
    The actual fine-art photography community is worlds away from what APUG thinks it is. Workshops do not exist in that community. Workshops are attended by people who care about process more than actually taking photos.

  8. #58
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Well your rather ignorant then, try looking her up. She published quite a number of books and exhibited extensively until her death a couple of years ago.

    Also remember there's not total crossover of work US to UK/EU or vice versa;

    "Workshops are attended by people who care about process more than actually taking photos." Bullshit, some maybe but the ones we are talking about in this thread are probably 20-25% process & technique and 75-80% Image making and art. So get your facts right.

    Ian

  9. #59

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    Ian,

    I've not been on a workshop but I was about to say bullshit as well. Surely there are very many different varieties of workshops not all of which will be any good or suite all potential participants. Also, the 'taking photos' comment if applied to serious photography seems to discredit the idea of the physical importance of print making and or the aesthetic considerations involved in-camera that go towards the final result. There are good and valid reasons to choose an 8x10 large format camera over a 35mm point & shoot, for example.

    Tom

  10. #60
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apconan View Post
    The actual fine-art photography community is worlds away from what APUG thinks it is.
    I kind of agree with this part. This is a blog of international contemporary photography I often read to see what is going on in that vein. While it does not encompass the entire world of what is exhibited in galleries, it does cover many current trends. I also appreciate that it is focused on the work, not the technology.

    As for artists attending workshops, I know many who do, such as the Maine Photographic Workshops, to learn new techniques from other renowned artists that teach there.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

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