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  1. #61
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Just remember that only last week someone was fired for what they wrote on a website.

    You've deliberately & repeatedly poured scorn on what you percieve the OP's current employment/financial position to be.

    My point was and still is that at no time have you given helpful advice at all.

    The renowned UK Landscape photographer Fay Godwin honed her skills on a workshop, she made a good living out of photography, with publishing deals and print sales. Later she mentored others and helped their careers along.

    The people I respect posting in this thread that make money from photography have ALL given helpful advice.

    Ian
    I don't have a job, so no one can fire me. I told the OP the truth, if that's scorn, so be it. The truth is not always nice, and its unethical and repugnant to lie to someone so you can feel good.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

    Become a fan of my work on Facebook

    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  2. #62
    lilmsmaggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    You've forgotten several important things:

    1) She's out of work and recently declared bankruptcy. She has no money to put to this.

    2) Beginners NEVER sell photos in enough quantity and a high enough prices to bring in enough money to do anything with.

    3) it takes YEARS to get to where you sell enough to live.

    4) Galleries won't even talk to her without en exhibition record, unless she knows someone who will give her a chance.

    OK - WHOA !!! - It's apparent that there are some of you who aren't really READING what I said in my original posts:

    1. Don't let my Lilmsmaggie moniker fool you. I am not a "SHE" --
    I'm a "HE." A very "BIG HE" at that
    .

    2. I never said I was out of work. I said state employees were furloughed for 18 months. What that means is that we did not work three days a month. That's lost income -- not out of work.

    3. I have some discretionary income, not much --but some.

    4. My statement concerning 2-3 workshops was strictly illustrative - not definitive. If I can use my vacation time to attend a workshop - Great! but chances are, (1) The workshop may not meet my schedule, or (2) I won't have the funds available to take advantage of the workshop when it is scheduled to commence.

    5. I'm not attempting to "live" off the proceeds of print sales. My income, despite being reduced is still sufficient to meet my financial obligations. However, I would have to budget for a workshop. I just would like to offset the cost associated with attending a workshop.

    6. I belong to a local gallery. Not sure of all the details associated with showing ones work there, but I know that there is a $200-250 fee involved, but they WILL show my work.


    So, If you're not sure what "he/she" said in my original post, please - go back and re-read it so you're not making assumptions - OK?

  3. #63
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    If you are attending workshops because you enjoy it, not to replace an education at a university, don't worry about recouping the cost. Look at it like spending a couple days at Disneyland. Nobody tries to sell Disney merchandise to offset the cost of going to the park, they go because it's fun, but it will cost a little.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  4. #64
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kershaw View Post
    Ian,

    I've not been on a workshop but I was about to say bullshit as well. Surely there are very many different varieties of workshops not all of which will be any good or suite all potential participants. Also, the 'taking photos' comment if applied to serious photography seems to discredit the idea of the physical importance of print making and or the aesthetic considerations involved in-camera that go towards the final result. There are good and valid reasons to choose an 8x10 large format camera over a 35mm point & shoot, for example.

    Tom
    Stoo & Delphine (UK APUP members) have just been to Inversnaid on a John Blakemore workshop, he's the man for you, a real master of the Zone Systen, Ansel Adams didn't, and the US densitometer guru's don't, get remotely close to his mastery of the medium.

    I've known John over 20+ years and I'd highly recommend a workshop led by him over any photographer in any country.

    You get the full experience from negative to printmaking, and he's probably one of the best printer around.

    Ian

  5. #65
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    NO THE TRUTH IS NOT ALWAYS NICE

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    I don't have a job, so no one can fire me. I told the OP the truth, if that's scorn, so be it. The truth is not always nice, and its unethical and repugnant to lie to someone so you can feel good.
    NO THE TRUTH IS NOT ALWAYS NICE

    If you want the truth Chris, start looking at yourself & your own work first before you dish out vitriolic advice.

    How well does your own work stand up ?

    How well are you really doing yourself ?

    How do you justify picking holes in other posters ideas and questions, based on what others can see of your work ?

    Be careful some here might start telling YOU the truth IN PUBLIC about you're work. Don't think they aren't commenting already because they are amongst themselves, it's just that unlike you they don't post deliberate vitriol online about another APUG member.

    I'd suggest anyone reading this thread look at Chris' work - see his links, and then judge for themselves whether he's in a position to give the harsh, spiteful, vitriolic advice and contempt he keeps giving the OP.

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 07-26-2010 at 03:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Davis View Post
    I kind of agree with this part. This is a blog of international contemporary photography I often read to see what is going on in that vein. While it does not encompass the entire world of what is exhibited in galleries, it does cover many current trends. I also appreciate that it is focused on the work, not the technology.
    I follow sonic sites as well. There are many other online places where you can see work in a similar vein. The blog and magazine writings of Joerg Colberg are also a good indication of current fine-art photography.
    The difference isn't just in aesthetic, but in process as well. The international gallery circuit could care less about alternative processes and printing workshops.

  7. #67
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    NO THE TRUTH IS NOT ALWAYS NICE

    If you want the truth Chris, start looking at yourself & your own work first before you dish out vitriolic advice.

    How well does your own work stand up ?

    How well are you really doing yourself ?

    How do you justify picking holes in other posters ideas and questions, based on what others can see of your work ?

    Be careful some here might start telling YOU the truth IN PUBLIC about you're work. Don't think they aren't commenting already because they are amongst themselves, it's just that unlike you they don't post deliberate vitriol online about another APUG member.

    I'd suggest anyone reading this thread look at Chris' work - see his links, and then judge for themselves whether he's in a position to give the harsh, spiteful, vitriolic advice and contempt he keeps giving the OP.

    Ian
    If all you can do is say my work sucks, instead of refuting what I'm saying, then you've proven me right. I've already sold enough prints this week to live for the next month even if I make no other money. how are YOU doing, Ian?

    Considering the number of people who email me each day from forums like APUG to tell me how beautiful my work is, and how many ask for technical help (which I freely give), I suspect that you'll not get many takers on your call to bash me. At this point, you are making a fool of yourself. Oops, now you'll sue me for libel, LOL
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

    Become a fan of my work on Facebook

    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  8. #68
    Ken N's Avatar
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    corners, guys.

    You BOTH are right. Just yelling past each other.

    Ken Norton
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    When you turn your camera on, does it return the favor?

  9. #69
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie View Post
    OK - WHOA !!! - It's apparent that there are some of you who aren't really READING what I said in my original posts:

    1. Don't let my Lilmsmaggie moniker fool you. I am not a "SHE" --
    I'm a "HE." A very "BIG HE" at that
    .

    2. I never said I was out of work. I said state employees were furloughed for 18 months. What that means is that we did not work three days a month. That's lost income -- not out of work.

    3. I have some discretionary income, not much --but some.

    4. My statement concerning 2-3 workshops was strictly illustrative - not definitive. If I can use my vacation time to attend a workshop - Great! but chances are, (1) The workshop may not meet my schedule, or (2) I won't have the funds available to take advantage of the workshop when it is scheduled to commence.

    5. I'm not attempting to "live" off the proceeds of print sales. My income, despite being reduced is still sufficient to meet my financial obligations. However, I would have to budget for a workshop. I just would like to offset the cost associated with attending a workshop.

    6. I belong to a local gallery. Not sure of all the details associated with showing ones work there, but I know that there is a $200-250 fee involved, but they WILL show my work.


    So, If you're not sure what "he/she" said in my original post, please - go back and re-read it so you're not making assumptions - OK?
    Sorry about the misunderstanding. Where I live, Furlough means Laid Off...not working at all. I sympathize with you more than most here think. Nearly everyone I know has lost their jobs and many are losing their homes. Thats why I am saying to be careful and not spend too much money on chasing photo dreams. If you have the $$ and enjoy photography, go ahead and take some workshops or classes, but you really will have a hard time finding enough buyers to raise the money until you've shown your work a lot and built a following. I'm not saying you'll never suceed, you will if your work is good (I haven't seen any so I'm not making a judgement) and you're willing to work hard and be able to wait a few yrs for it all to pay off. Some of these guys are living in fantasyland, which is fine if you're wealthy or your a doctor or lawyer playing photographer for fun, but for a middle class person like you and I, you have to be more hardheaded and realistic.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

    Become a fan of my work on Facebook

    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  10. #70
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Hris Crawfird - My work sucks,

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    If all you can do is say my work sucks, instead of refuting what I'm saying, then you've proven me right. I've already sold enough prints this week to live for the next month even if I make no other money. how are YOU doing, Ian?

    Considering the number of people who email me each day from forums like APUG to tell me how beautiful my work is, and how many ask for technical help (which I freely give), I suspect that you'll not get many takers on your call to bash me. At this point, you are making a fool of yourself. Oops, now you'll sue me for libel, LOL
    In your dreams maybe

    I and many others have refuted what you were saying, myself Bob Carnie, Ralph Lambrecht and many others have all given the OP helpful advice based in some cases nearly 40 years working in photography at different levels. Despite this you keep having a go at the OP.

    I have made NO comments at all about your work, I don't need to. So please don't assume I think your work sucks.

    Those are your own words about your work, it's not terminology I'd ever use, so maybe you have personal issue with your own work, that's not part of this discussion.

    Just back off attacking the OP's quite reasonable questions.

    Ian

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