Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,525   Posts: 1,572,351   Online: 1013
      
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 40 of 40
  1. #31
    benjiboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    U.K.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    7,034
    I own two modern digital spot meters, but I know that good photographers took wonderful pictures with very basic selenium cell meters before they were invented, novices read so much about spot meters on forums like this that many of them think that correct exposure is impossible without them, although spot meters are desirable for some types of photography they aren't absolutely necessary.
    Ben

  2. #32
    Bill Burk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    3,529
    Images
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    My assessment of what Minor White was doing above was a bit unclear. He is obviously placing his shaded palm in Zone VI.

    At any rate, I use spot-metering techniques for almost everything anymore, and haven't used an incident meter in years.

    I'll quit now... I'm not helping the OP anymore.

    Best,

    Doremus
    Everything in context is correct that you said. This is a typo which should read...

    My assessment of what Minor White was doing above was a bit unclear. He is obviously placing his shaded palm in Zone IV.

    ...

    I have a hunch you are helping OP...

    ...

    Here's a brief summary of what I based this on...

    Minor White "Zone System Manual, How to Previsualize Your Pictures" outlines "Short Cut Exposure-Development Calculations"

    1. Take a meter reading off the palm in shadow
    2. Place on Zone IV to set exposure
    3. Take a meter reading off palm in sun
    4. Development determined by difference in the two readings.
    5-Zone difference N-2
    4-Zone difference N-1
    3-Zone difference N
    2-Zone difference N+1

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Oregon and Austria
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    862
    Bill,

    Thanks for catching my typo! I am (truthfully) "keyboard dyslexic," and have a tendency to transpose letters both in order and right to left (k instead of d for example).

    I indeed meant Zone IV (4). I hope I haven't confused things too much with that small error. Too bad one can't go back and edit posts after a while.

    I have the White, Zakia, Lorenz "Zone System Manual" also, but haven't re-read it in a while. I'd forgotten the short cut part. Makes perfect sense except it can be a bit confusing that his "3-Zone difference" is likely shaded palm in Zone IV (got it right this time!), and sunlit palm in Zone VI (IV-V-VI probably being his "three-Zone difference") which I might think of as a two-Zone difference (4+2=6). Maybe he is really developing to place his palm in Zone VII; I'll have to re-read the book when I get back to the States. As long as it's clear what Zones one is targeting, White's method should work just fine, The same would work by placing a gray card in Zone III in the shadows and measuring the difference in sunlight.

    Also, the same should work with incident readings: take a reading in the shade and underexpose (got that one right this time too) two stops to place the middle gray on Zone III. Then take a reading in the light. Use the difference in the readings to determine development a là White as you quote. (Seems a bit like a rudimentary BTZS... If one added exposure compensations for the film speed change at the different developments it would be pretty close, just not continuous).

    Best,

    Doremus

  4. #34
    baachitraka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,557
    Beyond The Zone System - Phil Davis, book has arrived today but the print quality of the photos they put in is not that good. :-(
    OM-1n: Do I need to own a Leica?
    Rolleicord Va: Humble.
    Holga 120GFN: Amazingly simple yet it produces outstanding negatives to print.

  5. #35
    Bill Burk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    3,529
    Images
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by baachitraka View Post
    Beyond The Zone System - Phil Davis, book has arrived today but the print quality of the photos they put in is not that good. :-(
    Haa forget the print quality. Look at the down jackets and glasses. Man the '70s were awful!

    The information is most important in the book. The examples are illustrative but don't need to be duotone to get the messages across.

  6. #36
    baachitraka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,557
    Yeah, page 140.

    I will start reading it during Easter holidays...
    OM-1n: Do I need to own a Leica?
    Rolleicord Va: Humble.
    Holga 120GFN: Amazingly simple yet it produces outstanding negatives to print.

  7. #37
    baachitraka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,557
    Now I'm trying to understand the previous discussions. What exactly does it mean 'shaded palm in Zone IV'?
    OM-1n: Do I need to own a Leica?
    Rolleicord Va: Humble.
    Holga 120GFN: Amazingly simple yet it produces outstanding negatives to print.

  8. #38
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,501
    Images
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by baachitraka View Post
    Thanks, I found that photo but still searching for the thread. ;-)
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum216/...-negative.html
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #39
    Bill Burk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    3,529
    Images
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by baachitraka View Post
    Now I'm trying to understand the previous discussions. What exactly does it mean 'shaded palm in Zone IV'?
    Correction - it's not a typo...

    With a reflective meter, you can meter the light falling on a scene by holding your hand up to the light and meter your palm and "place the palm of your hand" on Zone VI, because this is correct exposure for the most pleasing pictures of people.

    (Placing a meter reading on Zone VI means to open up one stop from meter reading).

    Minor White described a shortcut metering technique similar to the BTZS techniques, and the shade reading is what was meant by that quote.

    But contrary to normal "palm" placement, instead of opening up one stop from the shadow-based reading of your palm, you close down one stop. Believe that is because the shadow area of a photograph does not require the full exposure to be realistic.
    Last edited by Bill Burk; 04-04-2012 at 11:24 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Can't keep this straight either...

  10. #40
    baachitraka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,557
    Its funny that I have this article bookmarked for quite some time, but I only read while answering to this

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/1...mbination.html
    Last edited by baachitraka; 04-04-2012 at 11:50 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    OM-1n: Do I need to own a Leica?
    Rolleicord Va: Humble.
    Holga 120GFN: Amazingly simple yet it produces outstanding negatives to print.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin