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  1. #31
    Loose Gravel's Avatar
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    Anybody here doing 'total development' or 'development to completion'. I don't know what to call it. Years ago, Oliver Gagliani told me about his developement of Super XX in exhausted D23. D23 has lots of sulfite, so it dissolves silver. He would put his film in a tank and let it go for a day. He'd get some development and some plating of dissolved silver onto his negative. Always wanted to know more about this.
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  2. #32
    lee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Gravel
    Anybody here doing 'total development' or 'development to completion'. I don't know what to call it. Years ago, Oliver Gagliani told me about his developement of Super XX in exhausted D23. D23 has lots of sulfite, so it dissolves silver. He would put his film in a tank and let it go for a day. He'd get some development and some plating of dissolved silver onto his negative. Always wanted to know more about this.
    I know a guy here in DFW that used to process film in Microdol-x that he made up once a year. He would run expired paper and film thru it ahead of time. I think he called it a Green Mambo Quick Shot. He somehow figured out that this process would give him the look of 1:3 Microdol-x without the issues he had with the dilution to 1:3. I never tried it or really understood it but he liked it and since he had studied with Harry Callahan and Aaron Siskind at Rhode Island School of Design I figured he might know something I did not know.

    I have a friend that used to assist Oliver Gagliani in workshops. I will email him and ask him if he knows anything about this.

    lee\c

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco
    I use Pyrocat HD 1:1:120 and need only 25 ml of A and B solutions to develop 4 sheets of 8x10 film. The amount of fixer I use is about 1 liter and is poured onto an 8x10 tray. I do not throw the fixer out after one session. I reuse for a few more then replenish with fresh fixer when appropriate.

    Regarding the convenience of the cap. I start by filling it with water and then roll the tubes for 5 mins for the presoak. I also use the cap after I dump the developer - I fill it again with water for a 1 minute rinse before removing the negative from the tubes and laying it out on the tray with fixer.

    Over 200 sheets of 8x10 developed using minimal agitation and not one unevenly developed.

    PROVISO: I would not use minimal agitation for negatives in which sky area comprises more than 50 per cent of the scene. Minimal agitation has a tendency to "smudge" sky areas if there are enough of it (see AZO forum for more on this).
    I don't know about anyone else but this confuses me. If you are using the tubes with this little amount of solution how long do you let it stand? The least amount of time standing I have read about is ten minutes. This would seem, to me to cause seriously uneven development as I thought the idea was to keep the negative submerged evenly.

    Would you mind explaining, in detail, your process.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  4. #34
    Mateo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Gravel
    Anybody here doing 'total development' or 'development to completion'. I don't know what to call it. Years ago, Oliver Gagliani told me about his developement of Super XX in exhausted D23. D23 has lots of sulfite, so it dissolves silver. He would put his film in a tank and let it go for a day. He'd get some development and some plating of dissolved silver onto his negative. Always wanted to know more about this.

    This is what Ryuijie does and he uses Super XX and D23 in those Yankee 4x5 combo tanks. I once tried looking up info on this process but this is the first mention I've seen of it. I guess this would be extreme stand developement.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    I don't know about anyone else but this confuses me. If you are using the tubes with this little amount of solution how long do you let it stand? The least amount of time standing I have read about is ten minutes. This would seem, to me to cause seriously uneven development as I thought the idea was to keep the negative submerged evenly.

    Would you mind explaining, in detail, your process.

    Mark, at a 1:1:120 dilution, that would amount to 25ml of A: 25ml of B: 3 liters of water. My tubes take approximately 1.5 liters of liquid to be full.
    Francesco

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    I don't know about anyone else but this confuses me. If you are using the tubes with this little amount of solution how long do you let it stand? The least amount of time standing I have read about is ten minutes. This would seem, to me to cause seriously uneven development as I thought the idea was to keep the negative submerged evenly.

    Would you mind explaining, in detail, your process.
    Mark,

    Since the tubes that Francesco uses are of my design, my tubes use a like amount of developer. What I do is I insert the film into the tube body and place that (open ended) into a tempered water bath and presoak the film for five minutes (in darkness). Then I dump the water from the tube and screw on the tube extender. This totally encloses the sheet of film. Next I pour in the developer that I have prepared to totally fill the tube. Then I screw on the cap. I place this whole assembled tube on it's side into the tempered water bath and rotate the tube for one and one half minutes. The I turn the tube on end and allow it to stand for one third of the total development time. At that time I turn the tube on it's side and rotate once again for ten seconds. I then again turn the tube on end and allow it to stand for one third of the total development time. At that time I once again turn the tube on it's side and rotate for ten seconds. At the end of the third standing period I unscrew the cap and pour the developer into a container. I next pour in the stop bath and screw on the cap and rotate the tube (on it's side) for thirty seconds. Then I unscrew the cap and pour out the stop bath into a container. I remove the tube extender, pull out the sheet of film and place it into the tray with fixer. Obviously the room lights can be on at all times that the tube is capped.

    My total development time can vary from 16 minutes (Efke PL100-SBR7 for enlarging) to fifty minutes (Efke PL100-SBR5 for Azo).

    Hope that this explains this to your understanding.

    Donald Miller

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller
    I next pour in the stop bath and screw on the cap and rotate the tube (on it's side) for thirty seconds. Then I unscrew the cap and pour out the stop bath into a container. I remove the tube extender, pull out the sheet of film and place it into the tray with fixer. Obviously the room lights can be on at all times that the tube is capped.
    I do this part a little bit differently. When the development time has expired, I remove the cap, pour out the developer, remove the film, and place it in a tray of stop. I leave the room lights off, but have the safe light on. I haven't seen any signs of fogging. In fact, I read here that, after development, you can remove the film from the tube & place it into the stop with the room lights on & no fogging. I haven't tried it with the room lights on, it makes me nervous.

  8. #38
    lee
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    Loose Gravel,
    I got this answer from my friend Frank this AM:

    Lee:

    You've come to the right person.....I even know the image the guy is
    talking about. Oliver made an image of some aspens (I never knew the film
    was Super XX -- I thought it was Ansco Versapan) and with only about 1-stop
    difference in illumination between the darkest and the brightest areas of
    the image, he developed the negative for about 24-hours in used D-23. But
    he didn't just let it sit there, it must be agitated constantly for the
    first hour, then at about 15-minutes intervals for the next 3-4 hours, and
    then once each hour after that. I have seen the negative and it looks
    positively silvery on the emulsion side. I have used the technique with
    Versapan with good results. When that film was no longer available, I did
    the same thing with the old Ilford FP-4. Then came TMax-100, and through
    experimentation, I found that 1.5 hours in straight D-76 with 5-ml/per ltr
    of 1% benzotriazole would take TMax100 to completion -- several of the
    assistants to Oliver (I was an assistant instructor at his workshops in
    Virginia City for seven summers in the 1980's) started referring to the
    procedure as "Snot Development" -- meaning to develop the snot out of the
    film. You can develop the snot out of any film so long as the highlight
    densities are building faster than the film base + fog -- IOW's, so long as
    you are building tonal range. While I have used this technique with TMax
    100 in 120 film size, it does tend to get a bit grainy. For the past
    couple of years, I've had very good luck with Ilford PanF Plus in straight
    D-76 + the 1% BZ -- it takes very nicely to extreme extended
    development.....easily N+4
    (which is essentially Snot).

    Hope this helps.....

    Frank

    So there you are....

    lee\c

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco
    Mark, at a 1:1:120 dilution, that would amount to 25ml of A: 25ml of B: 3 liters of water. My tubes take approximately 1.5 liters of liquid to be full.
    Okay. I thought 25ml total (including the water). Makes a hell of lot more sense now.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  10. #40

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    Thanks donald. You had explained this to me before and, if I was not having issues with my tubes I would give it a try with them.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

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