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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    Thanks donald. You had explained this to me before and, if I was not having issues with my tubes I would give it a try with them.
    My own method of minimal agitation is similar to what Donald and Francesco describe. I use a 1:1:150 dilution of Pyrocat-HD and process in tubes. I agitate four times during a development period, for about 1.5 minutes at the beginning of development, and then for about 10 seconds at the beginning of the second, third, and final development period.

    I basically use two system, depending on size of film. For very large film, 7X17" and 12X20" I develop in individual ABS plastic tubes, with a sealed cap on the bottom and a removable cap on the top. The tube is long enough so that the developer will cover the top edge of the film by about 1". I first pre-soak the film in separate tray, and then insert it directly into the tube with the developer already in, put on the cap and process with agitation. I remove the film from the tube for stop bath, fixing and final washing.

    The other system is for 5X7" film, but you could just as easily use it for 4X5 or 8X10" film with appropriate size tubes. I process this size film in open ended PVC plastic tubes which are placed in a 11X14" Beseler drum. I presoak the film and then place it inside the tubes, then when all are ready I plop them into the drum, which already contains the necessary amount of developer. I agitate by moving the tubes up and down in the solution, rapping them on the bottom from time to time to dislodge air bubbles. Then I place the top on the drum and turn on the lights until the second agitation period. When development is complete I remove the tubes and place them in a tray filled with 1/2 strength stop bath. I can process up to 7-8 5X7" sheets at a time with this method and drum size, or up to 9-10 4X5" sheets, though I use 4X5" film only for testing purposes.

    With both systems described above the tubes are standing on end, i.e. in vertical orientation, during develpment so that the film is at all times completely immersed in the developing solution.

    I have not tried the slosher method of development but it sounds like it would work fine, but given the smaller amount of chemistry in use it makes sense to use the stronger 2:2:100 dilution, as Tom indicates he does.

    I definitely do not recommend either extreme minimal or stand agitation in trays. Every time I have tried this type of development in trays it has resulted in very uneven development from streaking and bromide drag.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 11-20-2004 at 10:26 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #42
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    I, too, had trouble with unevenness when I tried minimal agitation in trays.

    I use a method similar to Sandy's. I use paint buckets from the hardware store to hold my open-ended PVC tubes. One for prewash and one for developer. I reuse the prewash bucket for stop. Of course, this must be done in the dark, but that poses no problem for me. A five gallon bucket will hold 5 8x10 tubes, and would hold six if I could find the thinner walled PVC. I use a 1 1/2 gallon bucket for 4x5 and 2x3. That bucket will hold 8 tubes.

    I'll also comment on an earlier post in this thread about avoiding temperature shock. My negatives have improved greatly since I gave in to the high temperatures here in Florida, and I began to use development methods based on the temperature of my wash water. In the summer, I can't get it lower than 80F, so I worked out developing times at 80F. My winter times, when wash water drops to 74F, are longer. This has been working very well for me.
    juan

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee
    Loose Gravel,
    I got this answer from my friend Frank this AM:

    Lee:

    You've come to the right person.....I even know the image the guy is
    talking about. Oliver made an image of some aspens (I never knew the film
    was Super XX -- I thought it was Ansco Versapan) and with only about 1-stop
    difference in illumination between the darkest and the brightest areas of
    the image, he developed the negative for about 24-hours in used D-23. But
    he didn't just let it sit there, it must be agitated constantly for the
    first hour, then at about 15-minutes intervals for the next 3-4 hours, and
    then once each hour after that. I have seen the negative and it looks
    positively silvery on the emulsion side. I have used the technique with
    Versapan with good results. When that film was no longer available, I did
    the same thing with the old Ilford FP-4. Then came TMax-100, and through
    experimentation, I found that 1.5 hours in straight D-76 with 5-ml/per ltr
    of 1% benzotriazole would take TMax100 to completion -- several of the
    assistants to Oliver (I was an assistant instructor at his workshops in
    Virginia City for seven summers in the 1980's) started referring to the
    procedure as "Snot Development" -- meaning to develop the snot out of the
    film. You can develop the snot out of any film so long as the highlight
    densities are building faster than the film base + fog -- IOW's, so long as
    you are building tonal range. While I have used this technique with TMax
    100 in 120 film size, it does tend to get a bit grainy. For the past
    couple of years, I've had very good luck with Ilford PanF Plus in straight
    D-76 + the 1% BZ -- it takes very nicely to extreme extended
    development.....easily N+4
    (which is essentially Snot).

    Hope this helps.....

    Frank

    So there you are....

    lee\c

    Turns out I own one of these original Gagliani prints of the Aspens. It is a 4x5 contact print. Not only is there a lot of contrast, but there is a never-ending amount of detail in the image. The more you look, the more you see. Oliver mentions this negative in the video about him.


    -Mike

  4. #44

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    i do a stand development using a tank and 4x5 film hangers. dilute rodinal 1:100 and develop 2 hours for efke 25 and 100. suppose i could go longer or shorter. haven't really tried too much because two hours seems just fine. start with a pre-soak of a few minutes and then agitate in the developer for about a minute. then agitate once for 30 seconds after the first hour or so.

    never had uneven development and everything looks great enough.

    though i know i should be all into technical this or technical that... but for the most part i just love being able to make and eat dinner while the film develops. and that most everything turns out something usable. i've never been a careful photographer, nor do i want to be, and this system seems to work out always to my surprise and delight. like magic.

    for what it's worth, i've always been fascinated by this article at unblinking eye: "mortenson revisited" which suggests underexpose (expose for the highlights) and overdevelop (develop for the shadows). why not? that's what i figure, and worry about.

    http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Mo...mortensen.html

    of particular interest in the aformentioned article is the idea of developing for a week and keeping the developing tank in the refridgerator!!! anyone know more about this sort of thing???
    Last edited by rakuhito; 11-20-2004 at 12:28 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #45
    lee
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    bump

    lee\c

  6. #46

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    "the idea of developing for a week and keeping the developing tank in the refridgerator!!!"

    I once left a neg in Rodinal 1:320 for 5 days. Turned out okay with very compensated highlights but also loss of shadow detail. I think the dilute rodinal probably exhausted itself or oxidized to inactivity and any time beyond 6 or so hours was wasted.

  7. #47
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    Hey this is a thread I can enjoy- stand develop rocks!

    I am also a not-so-scientific photographer , I like to go get a cup of coffee while my negs develop- I use semi-stand development in trays. I have not found the need to use foriegn objects in the developer or roll my negs into individual little cylinder (thank God). I found the article on Mortenson very interesting- certainly a different approach from our usual "expose the shit out of it and worry about the highlights later" ala Adams approach.

    Food for thought. I remember reading somewhere that Atget (sp?) used stand quite a bit. I've also heard that glycin developers are best for this- does anyone have an opinion on this? What is the best glycin developer? The best developer for stand? I have used Rodinal, but I'm wary to try PMK for fear of uneveness.. keep the info coming! Would stand-development be a recognized sect of the church of Rodinal ?

    Matt

  8. #48

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    The Church of Rodinal is Non-Sectarian!
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobtown_4x5
    What is the best glycin developer?
    Harvey's Panthermic 777
    Jim

  10. #50
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    I have wondered with this stand development like Gaglianai used to do where there was a lot of silver in the chemistry, would a slight electrical current accelerate any 'plating' action that may go on. This is a total wild-assed guess on my part as I know squat about chemistry but I have wondered for a while now if introducing a small amount of electricity from, say a 9-volt battery, would help the plating action?

    I you think popping your film\dev into the 'fridge would be a kick, how about plugging it in and coming back in 8 hours<g>?

    Any ideas about the practicality of this? I'm sure someone, somewhere has tried this...

    -Mike

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