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  1. #51

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    a sheet of white paper is just fine.
    Don't! From my sorry experience, esp. at high altitude, the brightener in the paper fluoresces (UV converted to blue). If you take that as a neutral reference, the "neutralized" pictures will in fact be yellowish.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    The Original Poster is going on holidays and he has shot so far only a few films. Nonetheless, he chose to only carry film with him, which is very nice to hear! Let's encourage him with practical and sound advice so that he might be a very happy film user also in the future and so that his "inexperience" with film will not damage his photography.
    In a line, let's try not to scare him with too much technical details about zone placement, spot metering, color temperature, lighting ratios etc

    To the OP I'd say: don't worry too much. Don't worry at all. Colour negative film is ultimately very forgiving. It's certainly easier to use than digital. With digital it's much easier to blow highlights in high-contrast situations. Film simplifies life! Correct and well thought-about exposure certainly gives better results but during holidays very often there's no much time to think too much, e.g. when going around with a group of persons, on a guided tour, a boat etc. In those situations negative film is the safest choice.

    A few more suggestions: be careful of heat. Don't let the camera or film let's say in a glove compartment under the sun or in the boot of a car. Keep the film "fresh" when possible. Establish a clear "convention" for used canisters (impressed canisters) and virgin ones. I personally always rewind the film tail inside the canister to distinguish the impressed ones. Perfectionists will prefer to leave the tail outside of the canister (so as to minimize the risk of light leaks) but in that case be scrupulous in marking/separating the used ones. If you use a marker to mark canisters, make the marking immediately, before opening the new roll. Do observe the advice to change your rolls in shade. If you are in the sun in an open desert, do use your body to project a shadow on the camera while changing the roll. When you change canister do use your pump to dislodge dust particles from the inside of the camera. Always have spare batteries with you: don't leave them in the tent, or in the hotel. Find a place to have spare batteries always with you when you have a camera, things like your purse, your document holder, or a pocket of your photographic bag.

    Fabrizio
    Colour negative film has a lot less dynamic range than digital "in the shadows" hence it's completely different to expose.

    Also the thing about keeping film fresh is all very well but people have been shooting reconnaissance for the forces over periods of months in desert conditions. I asked a colleague who did just this work and he said 'no problems'. Another example, a colleague left a sheet of 4x5 Astia in his camperva for four years. It was already about two years old when it was exposed. He developed it and it was absolutely fine.

    I'm not saying there might not be the potential for problems but in most cases it's overstated.

    Tim

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernard_L View Post
    Don't! From my sorry experience, esp. at high altitude, the brightener in the paper fluoresces (UV converted to blue). If you take that as a neutral reference, the "neutralized" pictures will in fact be yellowish.
    Yes brighteners may technically skew the balance slightly, but it doesn't matter, I'm not talking about using these targets for the white balance dropper in PS.

    All we need is a target that can provide a reference point, pink (skin tones), work just fine as long as we can measure it and we know what it is supposed to be.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #54

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    incident or spot test?

    Incident or spot?

    How would you incident read a scene like this in order to expose Portra 160 (presuming you don't want anything blocked up).

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...ortra-test.jpg

    And here's another one..

    http://www.timparkin.co.uk/photo/white-oak/

    and another one..

    http://www.timparkin.co.uk/photo/worms-tail/

    Tim

  5. #55

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    The old-school trick in lieu of a graycard was, causcasian skin tone = one stop above middle gray.
    Doesn't work so well with darker complexions or an in-law of mine was a mailman in Las Vegas
    with a very heavy tan (and his wife was pale - yay for a spotmeter!) Lots of the time, solid green grass like a lawn is very close to middle gray, at least for my meters. If I have to do something hokey like using internal metering in an SLR I'll aim it at a lawn or some gray rock or even asphalt
    pavement. Think if I was the OP and wanted to keep things simple, I'd opt for Portra 400 with a little
    more color saturation rather than 160. It will still have plenty of wiggle room.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Incident or spot?

    How would you incident read a scene like this in order to expose Portra 160 (presuming you don't want anything blocked up).

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...ortra-test.jpg

    And here's another one..

    http://www.timparkin.co.uk/photo/white-oak/

    and another one..

    http://www.timparkin.co.uk/photo/worms-tail/

    Tim
    Not to hijack the original topic, with colour negative, first picture, I would point the dome toward the camera from an arm length, while projecting a shade on the dome with the other hand, or, if possible, I would measure the exposure on the shade side of the walls. By the way, this picture definitely looks like it was taken with a digital camera rather than with film, the highlights on the upper right corners are clipped, which can clearly be seen by the grey sky, "recovery" function didn't recover colour information. That's strange, scanners should have no problems in capturing all the dynamic range of a colour negative. A colour negative should - if its dynamic range is exceeded - gently blend skyblue into white without any grey sky in between, which is a typical digital-capture behaviour.

    Second picture, it's not clear to me what it is, the situation.

    Third picture, I would just point the dome toward myself although I cannot see if the environment surrounding the photographer might falsify the reading (something reflective near me and not near the rocks), and I would rely on the colour negative dynamic range to preserve as much sky as possible before the blending into the white.

    Not easy to say as the incident meter should be put near the subject so as to capture the light reflected from nearby objects (the grass in the first example reflects some light back to the walls) so if it isn't possible to put the instrument near the subject one must have recourse to some mental calculation.

    Fabrizio

    EDIT: and I must add that I like the third picture in particular
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 06-22-2012 at 03:40 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Not to hijack the original topic, with colour negative, first picture, I would point the dome toward the camera from an arm length, while projecting a shade on the dome with the other hand, or, if possible, I would measure the exposure on the shade side of the walls. By the way, this picture definitely looks like it was taken with a digital camera rather than with film, the highlights on the upper right corners are clipped, which can clearly be seen by the grey sky, "recovery" function didn't recover colour information. That's strange, scanners should have no problems in capturing all the dynamic range of a colour negative. A colour negative should - if its dynamic range is exceeded - gently blend skyblue into white without any grey sky in between, which is a typical digital-capture behaviour.
    Depends on the situation - high cirrus and haze can change things..

    Here's the raw scan showing most of the dynamic range..

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...ortra-test.jpg
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...reran-crop.jpg
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...eran-crop2.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Second picture, it's not clear to me what it is, the situation.
    Oak leaves underwater with the reflection from the overcast sky being broken by an overhanging branch creating a semitransparent area. Correct incident would have to be taken underwater I imagine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Third picture, I would just point the dome toward myself although I cannot see if the environment surrounding the photographer might falsify the reading (something reflective near me and not near the rocks), and I would rely on the colour negative dynamic range to preserve as much sky as possible before the blending into the white.
    Pointing it towards me would pick up the sun reflecting off me as it just peeks behind the cloud and would end up underexposing the cliff face which is probably about EV5-6 in the darkest areas. You couldn't get to those areas without abseiling off the edge of the cliff. You could probably try to find an appropriate shadow that looks like it's getting a similar light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Not easy to say as the incident meter should be put near the subject so as to capture the light reflected from nearby objects (the grass in the first example reflects some light back to the walls) so if it isn't possible to put the instrument near the subject one must have recourse to some mental calculation.
    Agreed..

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Oak leaves underwater with the reflection from the overcast sky being broken by an overhanging branch creating a semitransparent area. Correct incident would have to be taken underwater I imagine.
    Very interesting effect. I would just use the incident light meter the usual way as it seems to me that the water veil is quite thin (most oak leaves seems to float rather than being under the water line).

    "Incidentally" that's a typical case where in-camera meter suggestion would easily lead to underexposure.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Incident or spot?

    How would you incident read a scene like this in order to expose Portra 160 (presuming you don't want anything blocked up).

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...ortra-test.jpg

    And here's another one..

    http://www.timparkin.co.uk/photo/white-oak/

    and another one..

    http://www.timparkin.co.uk/photo/worms-tail/

    Tim
    First and third are way easy;

    Dome retracted, so any flat face incident meter.

    One reading pointed directly at the light source/sun.

    A second reading pointed at the camera.

    Average the two.

    This is classic "duplexing".

    The one in the middle is a placement choice, visualize what you want, then take a normal Dome out incident reading pointed at the camera, then open up the lens to add about 2-stops of exposure (season to taste) and place the water surface in zone 7+ to 8 ish.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    The old-school trick in lieu of a graycard was, causcasian skin tone = one stop above middle gray.
    Doesn't work so well with darker complexions or an in-law of mine was a mailman in Las Vegas
    with a very heavy tan (and his wife was pale - yay for a spotmeter!) Lots of the time, solid green grass like a lawn is very close to middle gray, at least for my meters. If I have to do something hokey like using internal metering in an SLR I'll aim it at a lawn or some gray rock or even asphalt
    pavement. Think if I was the OP and wanted to keep things simple, I'd opt for Portra 400 with a little
    more color saturation rather than 160. It will still have plenty of wiggle room.
    I'm taking Portra 160 and 400. My plan is to use the 400 mostly for 'in the city' shots and overcast days outside the city. The 160 I was hoping to reserve for wildlife, macro, lava abstract and landscape type shots in the Galapagos.
    --
    Kenton Brede
    http://kentonbrede.com/

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