Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,821   Posts: 1,581,696   Online: 962
      
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 48
  1. #11
    pierods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    311
    But then I go back to my original question - faces in my photos look already in zone 6/7 (and shadows are fully developed).

    Are my dev times too long then?

  2. #12
    baachitraka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,590
    It rather difficult to tell without testing the film and establish development times.

    Your SBR is?....

    http://www.spotmetering.com/sbr.htm
    Last edited by baachitraka; 09-27-2012 at 07:39 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    OM-1n: Do I need to own a Leica?
    Rolleicord Va: Humble.
    Holga 120GFN: Amazingly simple yet it produces outstanding negatives to print.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    920
    You definitely need to test your film, making at least 3 exposures (-1, indicated and +1, preferably of a continuous coloured wall in direct unchanged light) - then you'll know where middle grey really is. One of those 3 exposures of the wall should be middle grey, then you can adjust your exposures accordingly next time you shoot a roll (i.e. a stop below or above indicated). I usually place Caucasian faces on ZVII (+2).

  4. #14
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,796
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    But then I go back to my original question - faces in my photos look already in zone 6/7 (and shadows are fully developed).

    Are my dev times too long then?
    Ok, unless you are shooting and viewing slides, this isn't a surprise.

    Negative films have a safety factor built in and one stop under exposed isn't a problem in many instances. The scene brightness range has a lot to do with this too.

    Your printing process may also be dealing with it "automatically".

    To get more specific we are going to need more detail.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #15
    Monophoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,691
    Images
    44
    Developing time mainly affects highlights - Zones VIII and above.

    Zone system metering determines the density of the negative. If you place Caucassian skin as Zone V (middle gray), and then make what Fred Picker called a 'perfect print' (a print which is exposed such that the blank film rebate prints as Zone 0) then Caucasian skin would appear to be Zone V. But you can print that same negative making the Zone V areas appear to be Zone VI by simply holding back exposure.

    So I think what you are experiencing is crossover between film exposure and print exposure. You are underexposing your negatives (placing Zone VI subject areas on Zone V), and then compensating for that by printing so that the areas placed as Zone V as if there were Zone VI.
    Louie

  6. #16
    pierods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    311
    Monophoto: I think the same.

    Am I correct then by saying that by doing this crossover, I lose zones 8+ ?

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    920
    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    Monophoto: I think the same.

    Am I correct then by saying that by doing this crossover, I lose zones 8+ ?
    You won't learn everything about the zone system in a few replies on this thread. Since the topic title is 'What zone is middle grey?' I think you should try to understand this pretty fundamental principal of photography first. When you've properly exposed your negs, perhaps jotted down the brightness range of scene, then worry about development and losing highlights.

  8. #18
    baachitraka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,590
    I am afraid that with roll-film you may not employ the complete Zone System since you cannot able to develop shots individually.

    I would rather expose for shadows and develop normally and let highlights fall where ever they are then try to print and see what you can get.
    OM-1n: Do I need to own a Leica?
    Rolleicord Va: Humble.
    Holga 120GFN: Amazingly simple yet it produces outstanding negatives to print.

  9. #19
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,796
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    Monophoto: I think the same.

    Am I correct then by saying that by doing this crossover, I lose zones 8+ ?
    Short answer is no.

    Long answer:

    Any given paper/paper grade, has a finite range that is typically much shorter (maybe 6 stops) than any negative's range (8-15stops). The difference in their ranges gives us what is commonly referred to as a film latitude.

    So for a straight print, with no burning or dodging, if a face is placed at the same brightness point on the paper, the print detail will remain essentially the same, from a bracketed set of negatives that may run from maybe as much as 2-stops under exposed to as much as 4-stops over. A lot depends on the scene and the film in question, this is a variable, not an absolute.

    This is essentially the principle disposable and toy cameras use. The film's latitude allows the "same" print to be made from a wide variety of camera/negative exposures without losing detail at either end.

    Print highlight and shadow detail are only lost when you exceed the limits of the film.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Adirondacks
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,657
    Quote Originally Posted by baachitraka View Post
    Film needs testing before you employ Zone System.
    Yes indeed. Unless everything is calibrated you're not employing the zone system.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin