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  1. #11

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    The only time I needed to create a tone reproduction diagram at Kodak was in a photo science class they put all new photo scientists/engineers through. We plotted things from a scene to a print and it was a very useful way to learn how things like flair impact image quality. Other than as a learning exercise, I can't imaging wanting to go through the process.

  2. #12
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    There have been a number of threads lately that deal with some minor aspect of the shape of the film curve and the influence this will have. Two different tones close together in the print or simply how the print is lit can have a greater influence than some slight bump in the curve. How the tones ultimately look is far from being solely based on the negative's characteristics. Why are these people limiting their focus to only one aspect of the process and appear to be unaware of how it fits in with the whole?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Benskin View Post
    How the tones ultimately look is far from being solely based on the negative's characteristics.
    That's why they had us do that experiment in the Kodak class.

  4. #14
    Stephen Benskin's Avatar
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    I have a program that plots four quadrant reproduction diagrams. It's been indispensable toward understanding theory.
    Last edited by Stephen Benskin; 04-07-2013 at 09:53 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #15

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    Stephen, does the program work backward? (ie start with the print tones and work backward to fine the best negative).

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Stephen, does the program work backward? (ie start with the print tones and work backward to fine the best negative).
    Michael, how would that work? The camera exposure and print exposure can be tweeked. You can actually scroll up and down the curves and watch the reproduction curve change.

  7. #17
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    I think a big part of the problem Stephen is pointing at is the fact that in the end, unless we are creating work solely for display in our own homes, how it is displayed is utterly beyond our control. Once I sell a print, I have no say-so in how the buyer mats, frames, and hangs the work. I can certainly provide best-practices guidelines to them, but if they want to be so stupid as to put a black-and-white print under a red mat in a blue frame and hang it on a peach wall, I can't stop them. Hell, I'll be lucky if I can talk a gallery into adjusting their light levels or painting their walls something other than museum white. Just make the best print you can, frame it and mat it in a neutral frame and mat, and let the content of the image sell itself. Frankly, even serious photography collectors aren't going to give a rat's ass if there isn't visible separation between the Zone III and Zone III 1/2 shadows of a pine tree in the lower left corner of a print - if they like the image, they'll buy it. Technical mastery and/or virtuosity are wonderful to have, and make for a nice sales pitch for the artist, but so long as the lack of technical mastery doesn't get in the way of conveying the message of the image, it will be a non-issue. I might use it as a criteria in choosing between two different prints of "Clearing Winter Storm", but if I'm deciding between "Clearing Winter Storm" and "Black mountain, Cerro, New Mexico" (Paul Strand, if you don't recognize the title), I'm not going to buy the Adams because he has better tonal separation in the pine trees.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Benskin View Post
    Michael, how would that work? The camera exposure and print exposure can be tweeked. You can actually scroll up and down the curves and watch the reproduction curve change.
    I misphrased the question. I thought Jones looked at going backward through the windmill but I guess that's just reverse engineering a given example. I just quickly wondered if one could start with a known paper characteristic curve, a desired set of reflection densities along the curve, and a known subject (meter readings), and somehow work out the hypothetical/theoretical negative required. I guess there are too many variables.

  9. #19
    Stephen Benskin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    I misphrased the question. I thought Jones looked at going backward through the windmill but I guess that's just reverse engineering a given example. I just quickly wondered if one could start with a known paper characteristic curve, a desired set of reflection densities along the curve, and a known subject (meter readings), and somehow work out the hypothetical/theoretical negative required. I guess there are too many variables.
    There is a way. NDR / (LSLR - Flare) = CI

  10. #20

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    I thought going backward through the quadrants might provide more information considering the shape of the paper curve for example.

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