Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,962   Posts: 1,523,149   Online: 895
      
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    East Marion, NY, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    348
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Schrager View Post
    get the little fred picker zone book and learn how to do it...easy
    best, peter
    Or use the even-easier modified Picker Zone System:

    1) Place the highest value you want to show detail on Zone VIII;

    2) Take the picture;

    3) Use paper contrast grades to place low values where you want them in the print.

    I also recommend getting a copy of the Zone VI Workshop (aka the little fred picker zone book), just because Fred explained it so well, and because, well, it's a cute little book!
    "What drives man to create is the compulsion to, just once in his life, comprehend and record the pure, unadorned, unvarnished truth. Not some of it; all of it."

    - Fred Picker

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    25
    Thank you for the responses everyone. Invaluable information for me....

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    Basically you are correct here.

    You might wish to get or make a Zone System sticker for your light meter or get a Zone Dial. Then you just place the shadow reading on the Zone you wish it to be in; no bothering with underexposing by one (for Zone IV) or two (for Zone III) stops. See here for downloadable stickers/Zone dial: http://www.darkroomagic.com/DarkroomMagic/Camera.html

    In any case, once you have determined your shadow placement, that is your basic exposure, regardless of whatever development scheme you choose later. You "place" the shadow where you want it, and then see where the other important values in the scene "fall."

    If you are shooting roll film, which I surmise you are from the aperture/shutter speed combinations you give, then don't worry about plus or minus developments. Those were intended for sheet film users who can develop each sheet separately, or for those who really want to carry around extra film backs/camera bodies for plus and minus developments. When I shoot roll film I just place the shadow, develop "normally" and use paper grade to deal with contrast. This works fine for many subjects of different contrast on one roll.

    If you do wish to have plus and minus developments, then here's how you deal with them: After determining your shadow placement and basic exposure, see where the important highlight value falls: If you need to move a subject that falls in Zone VII to Zone VIII, then you indicate N+1 development, make the necessary exposure adjustment (I underexpose 1/3 to 2/3-stop for N+1 depending on the film/developer combination) and shoot away. The opposite if you need to move a subject that "falls" in Zone VIII down to Zone VII; then you indicate N-1, make the necessary exposure adjustment (I overexpose 2/3-stop for N-1 with most films) and shoot away.

    Now, if you insist on doing this without a Zone System sticker on your meter, you need to count stops from your shadow exposure, which can get a bit confusing. However, let's go through scenario 1 above:

    ~ Let's place a shadow on Zone III. Let's say the meter reading for the shadow was f/11 at 1/15 sec. You want that in Zone III, so you underexpose two stops from that; let's say f/11 at 1/60th sec. That is your basic exposure, but isn't used for what follows, Remember it, write it down, or whatever, but go back to just reading the meter for the next step.

    ~ Now meter the highlight. Let's say it reads f/11 at 1/250 sec. (keep one of the parameters constant so it's easier to count; here f/11 is constant).

    ~ Now here we go, 1/15th sec. is Zone III (that was our shadow reading, not our basic exposure), so f/11 at 1/30th "falls" in Zone IV, 1/60th in Zone V, 1/125 in Zone VI and (whew, we've finally arrived...)1/250th sec falls in Zone VII. Now you know where your highlight (metered at f/11; 1/250) falls.

    ~ We decide we really want that highlight to be lighter in the print than Zone VII, say Zone VIII, so we indicate N+1 development.

    ~ Now, go back to your basic exposure (remember that, it was f/11 at 1/60th sec.), underexpose your predetermined factor for N+1 development (let's say 2/3 stop) and you arrive at f/16- (1/3-stop wider than f/16) at 1/60.

    ~ Now decide what aperture/shutter speed combination you really want; let's say we need more depth-of-field for this shot, so we stop down to f/22- and change the shutter speed to 1/30 to compensate.

    ~ That's all there is to it... Set that on your camera and take the shot.

    All this is predicated on having made tests to determine you own personal E.I. and development times, of course.

    Hope this helps,

    Doremus


    www.DoremusScudder.com
    Thanks for this. Great post.

    Just curious about your printing methods. Do you use fixed grade papers or variable? Do you ever use split grade printing or just stick to the one grade ?

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Oregon and Austria
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    833
    For years I used graded paper only, but now am using more VC paper, especially when I need higher contrast. I try to avoid low contrast on VC papers due to the unevenness of the response in the mid-tones. I like Galerie grades 2 and 3, and used to use a lot of Oriental G, Slavich, Kentmere, etc., In VC I am now using the Adox 110 and the Foma 111. I like both of these. When I use VC papers, I still use the same printing techniques as with graded papers except I use intermediate filtration instead of split-developing to get intermediate grades. I will, however, burn an area with a different filter. Basic exposure, and dodging is done with one filtration; no split printing.

    Best,

    Doremus

  5. #15
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,908
    Images
    6
    The Zone System allows you to pre-visualize what the film sees. It's always placing a specific area in a zone and you'll have to figure out where the rest of your scene is going to "fall". You can expand and contract your range, but there's no magic to it. Always expose for shadows then develop for highlights. Take a looksy here.

    Ted Forbes is a great photographic educator.
    http://theartofphotography.tv/episod...0-zone-system/


    This is very useful too.
    http://vimeo.com/61485935

    Best of luck!
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

  6. #16
    cliveh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,127
    Images
    340
    I fail to understand how anyone can comment on this without knowing how the original scene looks in terms of lighting ratio, luminance and contrast to name but a few, without even considering how the artist wishes to make the rendition.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  7. #17
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    the villages .centralflorida,USA and Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,370
    Images
    1
    you need to make yourself a zone dial, and let it do the thinking for you.You'll find it for freeon my homepage www. dark roomagic.com, or send me an email to rlambrec@ymail.com ,and I'll send you the PDF. It will do much to clarify the process for you and make it a lot simpler; it did for me and many of my friends.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,118
    darkroomagic.com appears to be down

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,118
    darkroomagic.com still appears to be down, but I found the PDF online ...

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...s/ZoneDial.pdf

    I just assembled one, and after about 30 seconds with it and my meter, a large piece of the jigsaw suddenly dropped into place ...

  10. #20
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    the villages .centralflorida,USA and Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,370
    Images
    1
    great!It seems that my website got hijacked by a Canadian photofinishing company;I'll find oout what I can do about it
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin