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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    No Jorge, you're wrong again. When Donald challenged me to post my data, I included the paper ES, and that was long before you posted Davis' response. In the context of the discussion of subject ranges, I simply stated that SBR can be considered a function of development, with which you disagreed and wrote:



    You were so eager to defend Donald, and tell me that I was wrong that you didn't think about the problem rationally. I responded by writing:



    Which is basically what Davis said, adding the obvious point that paper ES is constant. My explanation apparently annoyed you and you wrote:



    That last line is especially ironic. Why do you always have to get so nasty? What did I write to piss you off? When I posted an excerpt from BTZS fourth edition to support my point, you responded with:



    That was uncalled for, especially considering the fact that you have been using BTZS for about two years, right? From that point on you limited your remarks to baiting and insults, so I won't bother with those. So when did I insult you? Was it after you insuted me, or before? What is the difference between "insinuating expertise", and having an opinion or understanding counter to yours? Does "Unlike you, what I know, I know well, but I am not an expert on everything.." qualify as "insinuating expertise?


    I wish you would post my offending remarks so that I can see myself from your perspective, because when I read my posts, I see myself doing my best to convey my point of view and support my arguments without getting personal or angry. It seems that you are incapable of posting without including a personal jab like...



    What does that mean? Are you talking about Davis' point that the paper ES must be constant to target SBR for development? Isn't that obvious? I know I'm new to this, but come on. And it's not as if you qualified your remarks by saying that I can target SBR as long as my paper scale is consant. You wrote "SBR is not a value you can target, IOW you cannot say I am going to develop for an SBR of 6.". I'm not always right, but I'm not always wrong either, and if I treat someone unfairly, I appologize beacause that's what mature adults do, and as far as "keeping score" is concerned, I think you've cornered that market. How many threads have you participated in that don't end in you challenging someone to some feat of photographic skill? If you want to ignore me, fine, but if you don't, must you continually bait and insult me? I could live without that. Until next time,

    Jay

    LOL.....you are nuts if you think I am going to read all of that. As to your last paragraphs...in as many threads you have participated doing the same...in the end, you were challanged to show your work.... we are still waiting.

  2. #72

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    Take your frustrations out on film and chemicals. This thread has turned into a huge pile of dung from the posterior of a male bovine.

    They only way to learn and grow ..In my opinion the purpose of these posts...is to have an open mind. The "I am righ tyou are wrong" is just so f'ing stupid.

    Jdef I am sitting on the sidelines but you come across as being closeminded and petty and not particularly well informed. Of course you have company that is also capable of being petty and closeminded but much more well informed.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    As to your last paragraphs...in as many threads you have participated doing the same...in the end, you were challanged to show your work.... we are still waiting.
    So is anyone going to start that thread on artistic ability vs. technical knowledge?

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes
    So is anyone going to start that thread on artistic ability vs. technical knowledge?
    I guess that I am entitled to an opinion here...and assuming that I do then my opinion is that this is probably one of the most ill informed suggestions for a thread that I could ever imagine. That is akin to suggesting that we should discuss the relative sweetness of sugar versus the the ultimate salinity of salt...

    I don't think that my intellect will indicate that I would want to engage in anything that innane.

    However, please feel free to engage someone to start that thread or start in on your own...should that occur, I assure you that I will immediately put the entire thread on my ignore list.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller
    I don't think that my intellect will indicate that I would want to engage in anything that innane.
    Didn't this last post just engage you in that discussion, even if it wasn't in another thread?

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller
    That is akin to suggesting that we should discuss the relative sweetness of sugar versus the the ultimate salinity of salt...
    But you are right, Donald. There is no point in making such a comparison.

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes
    So is anyone going to start that thread on artistic ability vs. technical knowledge?
    While this might seem silly to you, I guess some members here want to know if those of us arguing these points and by the way making fools of ourselves, not only can talk the theory but practice it and can produce a reasonably well made print. I think it is a reasonable request and curiosity, when another member issued the challange I was happy to comply.

    Now, knowing you I am sure you will disagree and will start arguing the point. Let me make things easier for you, I freely and with all use of my capacities admit publicly that you are smarter than me and that you are always correct whenever you disagree with me. This should save us a lot of inane discussion and 10 pages of boring posts..

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    Let me make things easier for you, I freely and with all use of my capacities admit publicly that you are smarter than me and that you are always correct whenever you disagree with me. This should save us a lot of inane discussion and 10 pages of boring posts..
    Thanks!

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    I am not sure that I would call SBR a function of development, ...

    ... there is certainly a correlation between time of develoment
    and SBR, ...
    Given the same developer, temperature and agitation,
    time being the variable. Of course the subject and the
    lighting also play a part.

    As for myself, the SBR, Subject Brightness Range, is just
    that and no more. Members of this group speak of the SBR
    in terms of stops, zones, and maybe EVs. Dan

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu

    As for myself, the SBR, Subject Brightness Range, is just
    that and no more. Members of this group speak of the SBR
    in terms of stops, zones, and maybe EVs. Dan
    Now that's an enlightening statement to me. I thought SBR was "Shadow to Brightness Range" and measured in f-Stops/EVs. This is probably why I got lost in this discussion many pages ago. Always good to learn. Thanks.

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