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Thread: visualisation

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    your inability to pre-visualize is a personal failing that might be remedied by some ritual, like viewing through a filter, but more likely is simply beyond your artistic potential.

    Jay
    I can't visualize by means of seeing a detailed image in my mind at all. In my trade (landscape architect) it is expected to know what you design or in other word to visualize it. Being innovative designer (and well respected among colleagues and critiques) one may ask where is this creativity coming from. I have no answers but I think that there must be more than one way to visualize and imagination has more than one channel to present itself. Perhaps one channel is the mental and another is the emotional each using different method of visualization. I verbalize concepts and than form them into design using pensile and paper. I do same with my photography.
    Being less knowledgable in photography I do make mistake and good amount of my images are not to my liking. That doesn't make me less artistic - just more critical. Here, in my creative process starts another thread - time. A design or an image I have liked today I may dislike two days from now and need to re-do. Too many participants here left an impression that through visualization all their images are right on. I must admit it is something that is very difficult for me to buy. I also have a hard time to accept a suggestion to someone who is short on one form of visualization that he is out of his artistic potential. Saying so is taking a license I will never take.

  2. #32
    alien's Avatar
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    Hi Ruvy,
    this is exactly how I feel...I can not 'see' or 'visualise' an image in all detail in my head, its just not there.
    I do however have a pretty good idea what I want, and hope that my experience (which I am constantly working on) will allow me to come close to that idea...and still you get surprises when you take the film out of the development tank (nice and not so nice ones).
    And you know what? Thats why I like analogue photography so much...the moment when you see the negatives the first time, or when you switch on the light to have the first proper look at your picture. And nobody should tell me that a little monitor on your camera is in any way a substitute for that!

  3. #33
    Bob F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    Does anyone know when Ansel Adams started using the term "previsualization"? I ran across a usage of this term by Edward Weston in 1936. I'm guessing he got it from Adams, but maybe it was the other way around? In either case, Weston doesn't seem to have any problems with it, and that is good enough for me...

    Thanks,

    Will
    I do not think you will find the word in any of Adams' books. He seems to have used "visualize" exclusively when I checked the indices some time back. "Previsualize" seems to be a Minor White creation.

    Bob.

  4. #34

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    I have no idea what "AA" or "EW" have said about this, have not read them maybe I should. I think there is a definate distinction between "planning" an image and "pre-visualization". One deals with the tecknical the other the mental. Personally I find it very hard to previsualize. Work very hard at it sometimes even to the point of sketching and drawing to figure out what it is I'm trying to visualize. After all of that, the image is always a compromise of actual componants blended with the tecknical. The tecknical part is easy. Finding the magic of an idea is elusive always shows up after I've stopped looking for it. I certainly don't think you can find the answer to this question in a book. It is a personal quest. One so individual that once you've taken the journey the answers you evolve are your own. So much so you probably don't even ask the questions any more. From my viewpoint after a certain point being a book junkie clutters the intuitive parts of the brain. With out that part pre-visualization is impossible. Kind of like potatoes, They have eyes but they can't see!
    Stop trying to get into my mind, There is nothing there!

  5. #35
    Will S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob F.
    I do not think you will find the word in any of Adams' books. He seems to have used "visualize" exclusively when I checked the indices some time back. "Previsualize" seems to be a Minor White creation.

    Bob.
    There is a quote from E.W. in the "Nudes" collection from a letter of his to A.A. dated 1936 in which he uses the term. Aperture started in 1952 and White was born in 1908, so I don't see how he could have invented it.

    Group F/64 was formed in '34 I think, so it makes sense that someone invented the term around then.

    Best,

    Will
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  6. #36
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    Group F/64 was formed in '34 I think,
    1932, actually.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    Does anyone know when Ansel Adams started using the term "previsualization"? I ran across a usage of this term by Edward Weston in 1936. I'm guessing he got it from Adams, but maybe it was the other way around? In either case, Weston doesn't seem to have any problems with it, and that is good enough for me...

    Thanks,

    Will

    The first time that I remember Adams mentioning this was in regard to making his exposure on... Monolith The Face of Halfdome...As I recall he made two exposures that afternoon and then he had a vision of what he wanted the image to be and exposed his last glass plate with the red filter. I believe that exposure was made in 1927.

    Since this vision occurred prior to making his pivotal exposure, I would assume that this would mean previsualization.

  8. #38
    David H. Bebbington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    It seems that the English language already provides a word to describe the act of forming mental visual images, so why tack on a prefix?
    In my day job (writing about industrial automation equipment), I very frequently encounter visualization systems, which turn things you normally could not see (electrical signals, process states, etc.) into visual form. The term "visualization" is also used in this way in photography, for example advertising photographers turn an art director's idea or concept into visual form. I therefore feel that there is ample justification for the term "pre-visualization" to mean seeing something in your mind's eye before you turn it into concrete form. It's one of those terms like "post-modern" - linguistically it may grate, but it's useful and so it's gained acceptance.

    Regards,

    David
    Last edited by David H. Bebbington; 05-08-2005 at 03:19 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #39
    Will S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    There is a quote from E.W. in the "Nudes" collection from a letter of his to A.A. dated 1936 in which he uses the term. Aperture started in 1952 and White was born in 1908, so I don't see how he could have invented it.

    Group F/64 was formed in '34 I think, so it makes sense that someone invented the term around then.

    Best,

    Will
    You know, I'm not sure where I saw that quote now. If I can find the reference I'll post it.

    Sorry,

    Will
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  10. #40
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Ah, a battle of "absolutes".
    My OPINION - your milage may vary:

    I do not THINK perfect pre-visualization is possible. At the same time, I, equally do not think that anyone with more than ten minutes experience with his/her finished work can AVOID pre-visualization before s/he executes their next photograph.

    Wo/Man is not perfect, nor are we absolutely imperfect, in that broad area between concept and finished product.

    Do I pre-visualize? Certainly. Every time. Is that pre-visualization conscious ALL the time? No. Most of the time it is pre-conscious.
    Do my pre-visualizations work (perfectly) all the time. No. Most of the time I get "pretty close", but never perfectly there. At times, I fail miserably - the finished print/transparency is FAR from what I thought (hoped) to achieve. At other times, the finished result is not the same as my pre-visualization, but a whole lot "better".

    This photography activity is a slippery slope. I never know exactly what will happen. I LOVE it. Let those who are seeking concrete security go elsewhere. It is like knowing exactly what will happen in life.
    No adventure? No fortunate accidents?
    What would be the point in a life - or photography - as BORING as that?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

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