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  1. #21
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
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    What Baxter said plus;

    Quote Originally Posted by zenrhino
    So the book I needed for last semester's class finally came in.
    Guess he failed that part of the course from last semester!

    Anyways...it's fun to kick this stuff around every month or so. I can remember 20+ years ago when I actually believed I could print everything on grade 2 once I learned the zone system

    Murray
    _________________________________________
    Note to self: Turn your negatives into positives.

  2. #22
    Ole
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    I used to print everything on grade 2, but then I learned the zone system...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbroadbridge
    ..... this film has more than 5 stops of over-exposure capability......
    Only partly true. The latitude mentioned is not a fail safe mechanism by any means; it greatly depends on the brightness range of the scene. The exoposure latitude that any film posseses works for the photographer when the subject brightness range is rather flat i.e., the film provides some latitude for varying the exposure and development for manipulation of the final contrast rendered. Latitude declines as the subject brightness range increases; therefore, your exposure and development becomes much more critical in such scenes, there is little, if any, latitude to utilize.

    To tie this point in with the original thought behind the thread so as to try and avoid its hijacking-----well, I would take advantage of the fact that studying the ZS in the class should greatly help you understand such an important concept in understanding exposure and development. But, I guess in the end, a person will get out of it what one puts into it. Just don't become negative about it, accept it for what it is and try to learn from it, then decide.

    Regards,
    Chuck

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaughn
    Since you have been a member since 2004, I wonder if your question is asked with tongue tucked firmly in cheek. It is, after all, entertaining to watch pro and con Z-S folks duke it out.
    Wow. Talk about your active discussions!

    Actually, I was serious. But the book came in just this week for a Fall semester class, and ZS wasn't part of that class. (Intermediate Photo at MCAD, fwiw) I like to think I'm a pretty smart cookie, but the explanation of it in the book was a touch...Byzantine.

    I'll give it another go sometime before spring semester starts and go through the posts here about how to make it a bit easier to digest.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Bradford
    If zenrhino is not prepared to read the book which has the benefit of illustrations/photos over a text orientated forum, probably hasn't asked the lecturer, hasn't read any wider from AA or whoever for B+W, so far hasn't managed to reply to the thread......
    Actually the book just came in this week for last semester's class, but it was recommended (not required) reading. ZS wasn't part of the class, but discussed quite a bit by those more experienced than myself. I had my hands full between my first printing sessions and a recalcitrant shutter on my cheap Chinese TLR.

    I guess what I'm wondering more than anything is I can see this being something really useful to LF shooters (for the money you want to get every exposure perfect) and shooters in really controlled circumstances, but is it something one could use in street shooting or sports photography or photojournalism?

    Thanks!

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by severian
    Agreed. The ZS is how the science of our art works. You can determine iso, dev time etc. in one afternoon. Practice with real photographs until you can intuit the exposure. Then throw away your meter and any previsualization concepts and enjoy the act of making photographs. Phil Davis books should only be approached while wearing a wreath of garlic around your neck
    Jack B
    Ah, ok. Now it's getting clearer.
    So in essence, this is the next logical step after a film speed test and how you make the exposure fit the film speed/dev time combination that you come up with in the film speed test?

    Sorry to seem like such a dolt -- tech manuals just give me migraines.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenrhino
    ...but is it something one could use in street shooting or sports photography or photojournalism?
    definetely for your 1st example, not sure the 2 others you'd have a film camera with you (assuming professional version, not internet wanna-be variety)

    Most people that shoot film would benefit from establishing a 'true' film speed no matter who processes their film. If they process their own, then they can benefit from working out 'ideal' development for normal scenes.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nige
    definetely for your 1st example, not sure the 2 others you'd have a film camera with you (assuming professional version, not internet wanna-be variety)
    Good point. But even if I have to shoot D*git*l for the paper or whomever, I always drag along the nikon slr. I'm not ready to give up on film being a good answer to the problem. More than once I've had an editor like the scanned film I sent in better than the DSLR shots.

  9. #29
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenrhino
    But the book came in just this week for a Fall semester class, and ZS wasn't part of that class.
    Well now, that clears things up a bit.

    I'd say wallow around in your schools library to see what they have on the subject and read up on it for a while. Even if you find the zone system isn't for you in the end, wrapping your head around it will improve your understanding of how everything is interelated.

    Murray
    _________________________________________
    Note to self: Turn your negatives into positives.

  10. #30
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    Note that the reason people write books about these things is that they are too involved or complex to fully explain in a letter or forum post. As with many things, the devil is in the details, so reading the whole book(s) is/are really necessary.

    That said, most of the books will describe the entire process, including film testing (with or without sensitometry), "previsualization" (how do I want to render this scene?), exposure determination, corresponding development, and printing. While all of this is most applicable to sheet films that can be developed separately, as required by exposure, many of the principals (excluding differentiated development) can also be applied to roll films typically used for photojournalism, street photography, etc. The benefit of exploring the Zone System, or other systems aimed at the same issues, is gaining a better understanding of the whole integrated process.

    Obviously, using all or part of the Zone System, BTZS, or other approaches isn't necessary to make good photographs. What it/they will do, however, is make the results far more consistent and predictable.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

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