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  1. #1
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Cropping suggestions & first presoaked negative

    So yesterday morning, I went out to try this "window in a window" shot again. I had done it last year in 4x5 and then enlarged it and cropped it to this : 4x5 print scan

    It was ok I guess but ... yesterday I tried a different background with the same front window and I got this : 8x10 full negative scan

    I did a bit of "pre-print" experimental cropping and finished with this after much cropping and discarding : 8x10 cropped negative

    I'd be curious to see how other folks would crop this. I'm leaning towards going back to take the photo again in a portrait orientation and move in a bit closer so that I don't lose so much area in a contact print.

    Also - after reading the discussion on presoaking, I tried it on this negative. Five minutes of presoak followed by five minutes in D23 and then four minutes in Borax. It's plusXAero metered at iso25.

    ps : credit where due - I have admired Jorges stone walls and buildings photos and yes, this is a blatant attempt to rip off that style for personal enjoyment

  2. #2
    rbarker's Avatar
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    FWIW, John, I personally prefer your cropped 8x10 version over the uncropped version, and even more so over the initial 4x5. IMHO, both the initial 4x5 and the uncropped 8x10 suffer from having too much extraneous scene in the image. For me, the location is about texture and the repeating geometric patterns created by the windows. Even in the cropped version, however, I don't think the visual balance in the composition is quite there. If you reshoot, I'd suggest looking at the shapes in fundamental graphic terms, and structuring the composition accordingly to create a pleasing, but attention-getting composition. Then, concentrate on maintaining the depiction of texture as you did with the cropped 8x10. A shorter lens might help to give more size differential between the near and far windows, and result in additional composition options.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  3. #3
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarker
    FWIW, John, I personally prefer your cropped 8x10 version over the uncropped version, and even more so over the initial 4x5. IMHO, both the initial 4x5 and the uncropped 8x10 suffer from having too much extraneous scene in the image. .....
    Ralph,

    Thank you for the ideas. You are correct, the idea is windows in windows and I am going to have to get closer. I also tried to visualise how it would look framed and came up with THIS more closely cropped idea to serve as a model when I go back to reshoot. (Don't chuckle too hard at the crappy pretend framing please) I'll take along a shorter lens also as you suggest.

    cheers and thanks again

  4. #4
    rbarker's Avatar
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    That's OK, John. I sometimes use faux frames for Web presentation, too.

    This last crop comes close, I think. I'll be interested to see what you come up with when you go back and reshoot.

    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  5. #5
    Troy Hamon's Avatar
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    Well, so far I agree with everything Ralph has said. After looking at the first set of images, I preferred the cropped 8x10, but the expanse of wall seemed out of balance with the placement of the windows, so I was wondering about a recrop to move the window more to the right in the frame. This is exactly what your next crop shows...and it is better, but it doesn't entirely work for me either. Everybody has a very different vision of what they want, and maybe my eye is just different. If I were setting this shot up I might work closer to the first window, to emphasize the view through, which includes the textures of the walls and snow as well as the second window. That would greatly change the overall tenor of the image, though, so perhaps that isn't compatible with your intentions for the image. My 2 cents.

  6. #6

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    I prefer the tonal rendering of the 4X5 print. The thing that I prefer in that representation is the darker perimeter as opposed to the 8X10 shot. What I don't like about that presentation is the intrusion of the dark area at the lower left of the image.

    I agree that it needs to be photographed in a portrait orientation and that it needs to be photographed from a much closer camera position or it needs to be cropped much more closely at the time of exposure.

    The diverging lines in your 8X10 negative scan at the bottom and the stone courses of the negative are disconcerting to me. The use of swings accompanied with probable shifts are called for in the exposure in order to keep everything level and plumb on exposures taken from an offset position. If not the diverging lines of the stone courses will compete with the window openings...at least when I view it.

    One additional thing that I don't appreciate about the 8X10 exposure is that the perimeter is too light in presentation. It competes with the light area inside the window. The light area inside the window is a wonderful aspect of this image in that it causes one to enter into the composition.

    If I were photographing this I would try for an offset position of the second opening within the first opening. To precisely center the second opening inside the first opening detracts from a possible point of tension within the image by creating too static a presentation.

    I agree with Ralph about a shorter lens to affect the near far relationship. However in using a shorter lens you will also cause an increase in the right to left divergence.

    As others have mentioned this is your image based upon your vision. It will be interesting to see what you come up with in the end.

  7. #7
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Troy and Donald,

    Thank you for your input. I'm actually making notes from these comments to take with me so that I don't forget these points (I'm such a geek )


    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller
    .....
    If I were photographing this I would try for an offset position of the second opening within the first opening.
    This (above from Donald) is an idea that I've tussled with on both shots (4x5 and 8x10). It almost won. I guess I'll shoot both next time and see how they look.
    Another LF photographer suggested in email some time ago that I cut out a viewing panel - esentially a sheet of cardboard (or whatever) with a rectangle cut into it to allow me to look at "just the photograph" by blocking off the surrounding view so that I could previsualise it. I've resisted the urge because I have enough things to carry, but .... I may have to try it.

    cheers and thank you again.

  8. #8
    dschneller's Avatar
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    You're already carrying a set of fine visualization tools. Take the forefinger and thumb on your right hand and configure in the shape of an 'L', extend this with your palm facing out into the scene you wish to capture. Next take the forefinger and thumb of your left hand and configure in the shape of another 'L' and extend palm facing out. Cross thumb over thumb and forefinger over forefinger to create a viewing frame.

  9. #9
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschneller
    You're already carrying a set of fine visualization tools. Take the forefinger and thumb on your right hand and configure in the shape of an 'L', extend this with your palm facing out into the scene you wish to capture. Next take the forefinger and thumb of your left hand and configure in the shape of another 'L' and extend palm facing out. Cross thumb over thumb and forefinger over forefinger to create a viewing frame.

    LOL - that would be the "KISS" rule Dave Thank you for the thought. It'll save me carrying around a duplicate of what I already have.

    cheers eh?



 

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