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  1. #11
    naturephoto1's Avatar
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    Also, part of the benefit of bracketing an exposure is to make up for inaccuracy in film speed rating, as well as lighting conditions, and metering inaccuracies. With transparency material bracketing is normally done in 1/2 (though is possible in 1/3) stop increments while for negatives, due to their latitude it is not uncommon to bracket in 1 stop increments.

    However, to check the accuracy of meter (particularly in board camera meter) it is recommended to check exposures using transparency material. This will let you know the accuracy of the meter since transparency material has such a narrow latitude. Since negatives have such a wide latitude it is not recommended to test meter accuracy with negatives.

    Rich
    Richard A. Nelridge
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  2. #12

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    Wow, lots of great info here, I have another question now brought about by this disscussion. What is the difference between pushing/pulling and expanding contracting? Is it simply a matter of degree and intent? As I understand they both are based on developing more or less.

  3. #13
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    "Pushing" film in the way most people think about it is something of a delusion. Increasing development time will push up the highlights of negative film (B&W or color), but won't do much for the shadows, and film speed is related to the density of the shadows. To increase shadow detail with underexposed film is possible to a degree with compensating developers, speed developers like Microphen or Acufine, low-agitation development techniques, flashing, and there are a few more exotic methods like "hypering."

    Expansion and contraction more accurately describe what happens when one simply increases or decreases development time, producing a corresponding increase or decrease in contrast.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    Ishotharold, keep in the mind the two responses you have concern B&W film, color film is a different ballgame.
    SO tell the guy what that ball game is, robert.


    I assumed he was talking about BW because of his expansion and contraction comment. As far as I know there is no expansion or contraction in slide film development to control contrast. But I could be wrong.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  5. #15
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Pushing slide film does increase contrast, so it's possible to use it in a controlled way, if you make the right tests.

    In a simple way, for instance, I like to use Provia 100F pushed one stop in flat light to improve contrast. This isn't a very precise application of the Zone System, but given what slide film can do, it's enough for my purposes.

    With neg film and slide film, exposure is based usually on the thinnest part of the film--the shadows on neg film and highlights on reversal film. If you underexpose the shadows on neg film, you lose them, just as you lose the highlights with slide film if you overexpose.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    SO tell the guy what that ball game is, robert.


    I assumed he was talking about BW because of his expansion and contraction comment. As far as I know there is no expansion or contraction in slide film development to control contrast. But I could be wrong.
    i'd love to know too. i don't shoot much color compared to b/w ... so when i do i'd like to have a better idea of what i am doing ...

    -john

  7. #17

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    I was talking about black and white, I have a few rolls of velvia that were included with the camera, plan to shoot those in wisconsin next week on sunrise, sunset and other preaty things, but for the most part I'm going to stick to b&w untill I lear as much as I can from it. Plus development is much cheaper in our darkroom then to send of color to a lab.

  8. #18

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    SO did you shoot harold? It has already been a long day and I just noticed what your name said.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  9. #19

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    Well, Harold is what someone coined the first (and only come to think of it) mule deer I shot back in 2000, and it just sorta stuck. That was before I found cameras or I prbly woulda been too busy taking pictures to shoot one .

  10. #20
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    SO tell the guy what that ball game is, robert.


    I assumed he was talking about BW because of his expansion and contraction comment. As far as I know there is no expansion or contraction in slide film development to control contrast. But I could be wrong.
    Your assumption was fine Mark, I noticed the first few remarks were about B&W film, but didn't state that. Someone new would not have known that. I found nothing to comment about any of the previous remarks, and while I don't shoot B&W often (20 sheets last year), I still follow the B&W world (I am reading a magazine reprint series on B&W printing at the moment).

    Color is a different ballgame - with transparencies - you don't use expansion or contraction to control how the image comes out, you do that through the use of split neutral density filters or other techniques. As Rich was explaining before, when shooting transparencies when bracketing it will generally be in 1/2 stop increments, occasionaly in 1/3 stops. Most of the time, I find that the use of a split neutral density filter will more than compensate for anything more than a 1/2 stop difference.

    I don't push/pull transparency film. When I shoot the newer Velvia or Provia emulsions, 100, 100F, I shoot them at the rated speed, 100. When shooting the older Velvia 50 emulsion, I may shoot it at 40, depending upon what subject matter I am shooting - I've found 50 to be about right when shooting along the ocean, but I'll drop to 40 when shooting in the forests, or desert scenes.
    Robert M. Teague
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    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

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