Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,556   Posts: 1,545,061   Online: 999
      
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    local
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,325
    Blog Entries
    5
    Images
    50
    are you going ot be photographing speakers at a podium, or general views of people gathering ?

    when i worked for a newspaper i had to cover events like this, and realized that if it is "at the podium" figure out what the lights are ahead of time .. kodak used to have a little light guide that would suggest fstops and shutter speeds for low light situation. data guide maybe?

    your flash won't make a difference if you are in the audience with a long lens ... if you are doing "table+socializing" shots, put your flash on "manual" point it straight up and have a white card behind to bounce it. you'll have to do some tests to determine your fstops with the flash. i used a nikon speedlite the last times i did this, and i don't remember my fstops, before when i did it, i was using a lumedyne with a "tupperware lid" about 100ws at f11 or 22 ... (sync 125 ) .


    ==================
    ==================

    added after claire's post:
    i just remembered when i did most of these types of functions, i would hold my camera in one hand, and have the lumedyne on a bracket ( with a reflector+tupperware diffuser attached) - held above my head pointing at my subject. i used to use tmax400 film, but learned the hard way that that film can be unforgiving, and the highlights from a flash-blast can get really blocked up. the lumedyne is a beast of a flash - but it works very well ...

    best to do a trial run ...

    good luck

    john
    Last edited by jnanian; 06-09-2006 at 09:48 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    silver magnets, trickle tanks sold
    artwork often times sold for charity
    PM me for details

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wi
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    3,242
    If you are intending to use bounce flash then I question what benefit you will get from the Kleenex. It will reduce your exposure and I do agree that 1 stop is certainly in the ballpark for the exposure loss of the Kleenex. By bounging the light it is already quite diffused. If the light is going to be almost entirely from the flash then bouncing off the ceiling can be tricky. It is very easy to create a situation where the appearance of the photos show well lit foreheads and fronts with deeply shadowed eye sockets when used the flash is bounced from the ceiling on or at the camera position. Except for a special effect this is most unpleasant This is a very tough way to do the job. It is enormously helpful to have experience.

    Here is what I believe is much safer and foolproof. If your camera has a locking sync speed then be sure to use it so that it becomes very unlikely that it will be changed by accident. It is quite easy when concentrating on all the other things that demand your attention and find out after the fact that what you thought was the spped being used was not true and for instance you ended up using for example 1/250th of a second. It is very distressing when this happens..very distressing indeed. Do not use bounce light. Arrange that thru the use of hand holding, using a flash bracket or light stand have your flash about 8-10 inches directly above the lens axis. Everything will be well illuminated at the main subject position. Only small shadows will be cast. Background shadows will not be visible in your photos. With groups of people get them to stand or be seated in roughly a plane at right angles to the lens axis rather then seperated by depth such as shooting down a table with people from 5 thru 20 feet away. Be on the safe side and expose at least 1/2 stop more than normal. One stop of over exposure from normal will not cause much problems either..it may indeed be better. Be very careful not to over develop. 10 percent less than what has proven to work well for you in the past is a good starting point. IF YOU ARE NOT CONFICENT IN YOUR ABILITY TO EXPOSE AND PROCESS MATERIALS WELL AND DO NOT HAVE SIGNIFICANT EXPERIENCE WITH THEM, THEN DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR AND USE A B&W C41 FILM AND HAVE IT PROCESSED AT A 1 HOUR PHOTO LAB AND 4X6 PRINTS MADE. Do not compose over tightly. Leave your self some room. Make sure that your equipment is working before you start. Flash cords are the item most likely to cause problems. Take plenty of batteries. An additional camera and flash can be most helpful. Good luck.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

  3. #13
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,351
    Images
    132
    OK, lots of great comments, so let me make my comments at once:

    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker
    I think some(or many if there are) flash units (such as Vivitar, National, and Sunpak) made for manual cameras are set to use a 35mm lens primarily. Mine is recommended for 35-135mm range, and it comes with a head gear (I don't know what to call it) that extends to throw the light further away accordingly.
    Good observation; the last time I was working with a Nikon Speedlight and it had two modes: normal-tele and wide-angle. The flash contained an internal focussing system. I will test my 28mm to be sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker
    One thing about boucing off the ceiling is that if the ceiling is not flat and/or has a lot of objects (lighting fixtures, etc), You may not get soft and even light on your subject(s). But again it depends on how wide you shoot.

    And you don't need a diffuser for that. Diffusion is needed when you aim your flash at your subject(s) directly to cut the intensity and reduce the amount of the light. Bounced light is already soft enough to begin with.
    Other good observation. I am not sure yet how high the ceiling will be. I'm at Acadia University, so I suspect the ceiling would be fairly high, following institutional standards. I think I will go the way of the Kleenex+Straight aim if they are too high. I also have variable intensity at the Manual setting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian
    are you going ot be photographing speakers at a podium, or general views of people gathering ?
    It will be mostly people gathering, but I'm double-checking that.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian
    your flash won't make a difference if you are in the audience with a long lens
    That one I knew about from my father always saying that during football games!

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian
    if you are doing "table+socializing" shots, put your flash on "manual" point it straight up and have a white card behind to bounce it. you'll have to do some tests to determine your fstops with the flash.
    I will test auto+kleenex vs. manual+white card vs. bounce and see what I like best. As Claire and the other have mentioned, it's useless to combine two diffusion methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Senft
    Arrange that thru the use of hand holding, using a flash bracket or light stand have your flash about 8-10 inches directly above the lens axis. Everything will be well illuminated at the main subject position. Only small shadows will be cast. Background shadows will not be visible in your photos.
    The only flash bracket I have is a normal angle bracket. The light is not higher than the Spottie's hotshoe, just a few inches on the left of the lens axis. Do you think I should just stick to the hotshoe position?


    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Senft
    Be on the safe side and expose at least 1/2 stop more than normal. One stop of over exposure from normal will not cause much problems either..it may indeed be better. Be very careful not to over develop. 10 percent less than what has proven to work well for you in the past is a good starting point....Do not compose over tightly.
    I'll have the time to shoot a test roll or two this weekend and process it. Someone suggested Delta 400 because of its long straight line, but I haven't tested for its EI, so I'd be reluctant to rely on it. With 400TX, I'm confident that my time and exposure are good. Perhaps I will also shoot a C41 roll just to check flash intensity and light quality.

    I'm taking note of composition, and I bought an extra battery for my camera meter (in the event that I can work with available light).

    Thanks a million everyone for the help. I must shamefully admit that the last time I did such a shot it was with d**** equipment (lent to me) and I just tried all possible combinations until I found something on the LCD that looked good. I like the challenge of working with film, and I hope to get some good shots.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  4. #14
    metod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Montreal
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    102
    Images
    10
    I would also back up Claire’s suggestion for using C-41 B&W film. It is a very forgiving film and works well with photographing people indoors. Another advantage I would see is that if a lab could make you proof prints, you could see people’s expressions right away (closed eyes, funny faces….) and exclude those ones later as you develop your prints. Just a thought….

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wi
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    3,242
    Using a flash bracket to the side will need more care to watch where shadows fall, Be very creful that your flash in that location does not cause shadows to fall on others that you wish to have illuminated. Keeping people a distance from the background will also be useful in shadow control. For myself, I prefer to hand hold the flash above the lens if I have to. If you do handhold it instead of using a tripod, bracket or light stand then be very careful the camera is on a srap around your neck.

    All in all my personal feelings about what you are to undertake makes the c41 b&w film and 4x6 prints very desirable. If the film is over exposed a stop there is a very good chance that the image quality may be better than being exposed at 400. If you do the job with tri-x and are taking quite a few photos then what? A big proofing job is then what. Making 4x6 prints is little easier, at best, than making 5x7 and 8x10 prints. If particular prints do not satify you then you ask the lab to reprint them for free. Making final enlargements is a different situation. Typically the price of 8x10 and even 5x7s is much more expensive than the 4x6 prints. Of course it is very helpful to work with a 1 hour photo lab that has a very good reputation.

    Be careful or this first job can be a nightmare.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

  6. #16
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,351
    Images
    132
    Hm, Claire you migh be right on C-41. Given it's a first film assignment, and that I can bill my employer for any supplies, it puts the responsibility out of my hands. I also know that we're going to use most of these photos online, so showing them scans instead of proof sheets may be more useful. So the question is now... XP2 or T400Cn ?
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  7. #17
    metod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Montreal
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    102
    Images
    10
    Michel, I used T400Cn quite a bit and really like it. I would actually use it more generally, if there wouldn't be some archival concerns. But I think that should not be a worry in your case. I rated this film at ISO 800 with no problem. Try to test it, if you can. Good luck.

    Metod

  8. #18
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,351
    Images
    132
    Went to the photo shop on my lunch hour and picked up a BW400CN that I'll be testing tonight. From what I read, XP2's advantage was traditional darkroom processing, but in the present case it's not a hard and fast requirement...

  9. #19
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,351
    Images
    132
    Alright, testing is in. What I found was that when using the Automatic mode, the flash had a tendency to overexpose by about a stop. Bounce tests show me that it doesn't look good unless you have an angle of at least 60 degrees. That way the light comes diffused from the ceiling. You have to crop the top area though, otherwise it looks kind of funky. Kleenex diffusion might be a more reliable way to control the contours, but even direct flash on someone doesn't look ugly or unflattering.

    Manual mode was also very precise, and didn't require much corrections. There's one thing about it I'm not sure I understand, though: when I use the automatic mode, my flash gives me an interval of usable distances to subject. When I use manual mode, I have a set of pairs aperture-distance to subject. But let's say I have a distance of 5 meters for f5.6. What does it tell me about the light before and after 5m ? My test shots show me that there's sufficient light for an interval of distances before and after 5m, but is there a way to guesstimate it?
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    905
    michel,
    if you're primary use is going to be for the web, when you get the film processed, have them make you a photo cd for each roll, for that application they work wonderfully, and the quality is surprisingly good for a few dollars.


    erie

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin