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  1. #21

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    so Baxter, post an image or two

    for now, check out the attached

    by metered off, i mean fill the frame with the selected mid tone, and use the suggested exposure

    the camera will reproduce the mid tone as a mid tone, any tone lighter will be reproduced lighter, and any tone darker will be reproduced darker
    Last edited by Ray Heath; 08-05-2007 at 12:40 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22
    Baxter Bradford's Avatar
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    Ray

    I regularly post images in the APUG galleries in both colour and B+W and provide plenty of info/data especially regarding filtration.

    I do not have time to fully annotate a range of images adequately - which is why I am advocating resorting to well written text books.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Bradford
    This method may be fine with experience, but doesn't really help Johannes or others new to the process of manual metering get started.
    Baxter - I'm not sure if I'm the only one who agrees with you in this... but I spend a good hour or so of my time writing out what I thought was a pretty decent description of how to do quality light metering without the zone system or any such thing on the first page. I was wondering if you'd have a quick look and see if you'd agree. I'd like to get this guy past any of the 'inessentials' and off to the races here.

  4. #24
    Baxter Bradford's Avatar
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    Hi Sparky

    This is the danger of web forums - it takes a minute to ask a question and then others out of the kindness of their hearts spend many multiples of this trying to provide answers, exaccerbated by the limitations of keyboard rather than being able to draw and explain as you go. My original post was trying to get Johannes to search the archives where I know the info has been done before saving us all time -

    Your post will certainly get Johannes going, assuming that he is using B+W or Colour neg film. For transparency and more precise B+W then consideration of SBR is essential. Lack of info about film type and type of metering being used in the original post hasn't helped matters. This is such a dynamic subject with so many variables that I do not feel it sensible to expend more time on it.

  5. #25
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    Ray - Zone V is mid-tone. SBR stands for subject brightness range.

    Yes, that's possibly a bit advanced for this thread.

    But I posted to point out that a very famous, successful photographer uses his meter in a very simple way. He simply picks out what he wants to render as mid-tone, meters that object, then sets his exposure to match. That's as good a way as any to begin.
    juan

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan
    That's as good a way as any to begin.
    That's where I don't agree. If you're going to get into limited-area metering (which I would suggest is far from essential) then it has to be a lot easier to choose either the darkest area in which you want shadow detail (negative) or the brightest area you don't want to 'blow' (tranny or digi).

    Cheers,

    Roger

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Bradford
    Hi Sparky

    This is the danger of web forums - it takes a minute to ask a question and then others out of the kindness of their hearts spend many multiples of this trying to provide answers, exaccerbated by the limitations of keyboard rather than being able to draw and explain as you go. My original post was trying to get Johannes to search the archives where I know the info has been done before saving us all time -

    Your post will certainly get Johannes going, assuming that he is using B+W or Colour neg film. For transparency and more precise B+W then consideration of SBR is essential. Lack of info about film type and type of metering being used in the original post hasn't helped matters. This is such a dynamic subject with so many variables that I do not feel it sensible to expend more time on it.
    I think there's certainly truth in what you say - though I'd be concerned about discouraging newcomers to the field. Yes, I was assuming he was talking about B&W neg film... perhaps false. But I'd rather see someone shooting chromes by trial and error first - rather than furrowing their brow over SBR issues. Actually - if you're shooting chromes - SBR is the least of your worries - testing for the right CC filtration's going to be MUCH more of an issue IMHO. But anyway - thanks for the response... I wasn't looking for a gold star or anything... I was just trying to bolster some grass roots support for the guy and get away from all this boring zone talk.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    That's where I don't agree. If you're going to get into limited-area metering (which I would suggest is far from essential) then it has to be a lot easier to choose either the darkest area in which you want shadow detail (negative) or the brightest area you don't want to 'blow' (tranny or digi).

    Cheers,

    Roger
    Roger - surely one can deal with these things by developing an 'eye' for them, don't you think? - much like learning to 'read' a scene in B&W instead of relying on a monochrome viewing filter as a crutch? Is learning by making mistakes such a bad thing - ? Surely - it would make one a better photographer.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan
    "... He simply picks out what he wants to render as mid-tone, meters that object, then sets his exposure to match..."
    Can't see how it's that "simple" unless he's willing to sacrifice the shadows and/or highlights.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky
    Roger - surely one can deal with these things by developing an 'eye' for them, don't you think?
    Possibly, but why bother? Look at the first commercially successful spot meter, the SEI, and they didn't even bother with a mid-tone index. Neg speed is keyed to shadows, so read shadows (and highlights too if you want to control contrast through development), and tranny/digi is keyed to highlights, so read highlights (or use incident, which used to be known as the 'artificial highlight' method). Mid-tones add an extra level of complication to no advantage that I can see.

    Cheers,

    Roger

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