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  1. #41
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    2F/2F,

    I wholeheartedly agree with your explanation of the value of, and need for, aggression.
    That's where we differ. I see no reason for agression in a forum like this, because this is a place for people with the same interest to exchange their experiences. There is no need to get agressive with people who value the same fantastic hobby.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    ...READ THE BOOK. You seemingly have not, and if you have, you have not understood it, yet you persist in arguing your incorrect interpretations of that which is in it. I can only do so much to prove what the book says without actually transcribing the whole darned thing, so I have to give up at this point...
    Thank You
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    That's where we differ. I see no reason for agression in a forum like this, because this is a place for people with the same interest to exchange their experiences. There is no need to get agressive with people who value the same fantastic hobby.
    It's a way to stress a point. It's not person vs person, but view against view.

    A way to express the strength of one's commitment to that same fantastic hobby.
    Also known as passion.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Remember, you have the freedom to not participate in such discussion, but you don't have the right to forbid them.
    Noone thinks (at least not me) they can forbid anything.

    That's why it is an appeal.


    Apropos the freedom not to participate: so how about allowing digital on APUG?
    Nah...
    Even though we would have, as you point out, the freedom not to participate in such discussions, this would not be the haven that it is.

    As will be clear, i often long for a ZS-free haven as well.
    A place where we are spared the many different takes people have on what that Doctrine is about. Spared discussions that only serve to demonstrate how many different ways there are to get something inherently dead simple so very wrong.
    A place devoted to photography itself. Not to something only still vaguely resembling photography after it has been filtered, expanded, contracted, 'N'-ed, and generally 'zoned' to death.

  5. #45
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    That's where we differ. I see no reason for agression in a forum like this, because this is a place for people with the same interest to exchange their experiences. There is no need to get agressive with people who value the same fantastic hobby.
    Time for a beer summit.

    Seriously,

    I lived in San Francisco for 3 decades before moving to the pacific northwest. There were three or four of us amateur photographers who used to drive down the coast to Carmel for photography. The mentor of our group knew Ansel Adams personally and promised us we would get to meet him eventually. In 1980, three or four of us concluded a day on the rocks with a visit to Adam's house at 5pm... the time Adams normally finished his work in the darkroom and welcomed random visitors.

    I've used the Zone System for 26 years... after having met St. Ansel himself and had a bourbon with him in his living room. He convinced me to give it a try and I did. God, it would have been great to get all of the thread debate participants in his living room at happy hour. Mr. Adams would have appreciated the give and take... and then refilled everyone's glass with gin & tonic.

    Ralph, I appreciate and respect the way you acknowledged a lost point. You sir, are a gentleman.

    For what it is worth, I remember meeting Ansel one more time and asking the place/fall question. His answer was essentially, you can place either shadow or highlight... it's up to you. But remember, if you don't get enough exposure in the shadows, you cannot fix it through development.

  6. #46
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    It's a way to stress a point. It's not person vs person, but view against view.

    A way to express the strength of one's commitment to that same fantastic hobby.
    Also known as passion.
    Agression is passion taken too far.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwinnParamount View Post
    For what it is worth, I remember meeting Ansel one more time and asking the place/fall question. His answer was essentially, you can place either shadow or highlight... it's up to you. But remember, if you don't get enough exposure in the shadows, you cannot fix it through development.
    Well said and to the point. It sums this long thread up very nicely.

    Thanks for sharing. I spend an afternoon in Ansel's darkroom with John Sexton myself once. It was a memorable afternoon.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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