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  1. #11
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
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    Ya know, I keep coming back to Thomas' remarks about matching the right film with the right developer and the right paper and the right processes. Let's face it, digital is any SD card into any PC into any high-end software. The most control, I guess, would be the paper, printer and ink preferences. Digital is pretty much plug and play. Not to lessen the skill and craft needed in order to be proficient in its use. But there is a lot more HANDS ON methodology required for analog processes. And I think that's what should be pushed, if anything. A lot of people, though enticed by the quick and easy and seduction of the dark side of the medium, still like getting the old paws dirty. It certainly does take much longer to get where you want to go, but the length of the voyage and the perserverance required in acheiving the goal are their own rewards to those with the patience, aptitude, drive and curiosity to make it.
    Thank you.
    CWalrath
    APUG BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE
    DE Darkroom

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  2. #12
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
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    We crossed in the mail. You're welcome and I hope you are met with success.
    Thank you.
    CWalrath
    APUG BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE
    DE Darkroom

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  3. #13
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z3guy View Post
    Thanks, all!
    We certainly don't trash digital, as some of our students shoot both, and we fully understand that to survive in the commercial world you must shoot digital to meet client expectations. We have had students learn film after starting in digital and they come out of a sense of curiosity and appreciation of a well crafted black & white print. Perhaps Mainecoonmaniac has some of the answer "The best demographic is probably fine art people." I appreciate everyone taking time to answer.
    Paul
    I'm a tech at a university art department. The good thing is that the faculty still teach the use of film. The students are Gen Y and most of them haven't shot with a film camera or event touched a roll of film. One of them checked out a Fuji 6x7 camera and discovered a world that is totally magical for him. One sad thing is that the department got rid of their RA color print processor. The students shoot color film, have it process at one of the few remaining labs, then scan the images to have it printed. We still have a BW darkroom where students learn about processing BW film and silver gelatin printing. Film is still alive and slowly being rediscovered by a new generation. They will, I'm sure, try to convince people on the merits of analog photography.

  4. #14
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Walrath View Post
    Ya know, I keep coming back to Thomas' remarks about matching the right film with the right developer and the right paper and the right processes. Let's face it, digital is any SD card into any PC into any high-end software. The most control, I guess, would be the paper, printer and ink preferences. Digital is pretty much plug and play. Not to lessen the skill and craft needed in order to be proficient in its use. But there is a lot more HANDS ON methodology required for analog processes. And I think that's what should be pushed, if anything. A lot of people, though enticed by the quick and easy and seduction of the dark side of the medium, still like getting the old paws dirty. It certainly does take much longer to get where you want to go, but the length of the voyage and the perserverance required in acheiving the goal are their own rewards to those with the patience, aptitude, drive and curiosity to make it.
    Digital can be plug and play the same way shooting film can be too; when one drops off their rolls of exposed film to be developed and printed.

    Digital can be just as hands on as film processing too. They both can require loads of time in the darkroom, masks, layers, dodging, burning, both can require just as much time consuming work in their respective darkrooms.

    One does not require more or less technical acumen, aptitude, drive patience, and curiosity then the other.

    I have convinced MANY digital shooters to use film and they will try film if one does not jab or badmouth digital, and if one sells film for it's look, it's dynamic range, and the awesome anticipation one feels before getting the developed negatives and/or prints.

    A friendly RESPECTFUL approach to digital shooters is a must. Telling them lies about how film is better, or how digital sucks, or that real photographers shoot only film is unproductive, and evidence of one's stupidity.

    I was sold on film by a film shooter that also loved digital but showed me the look, feel, tonal graduations and wider DR that film provides...that caused me to switch to film.

    The way I convince others is by the prints that came from film....that is the strongest argument.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  5. #15
    rthomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    Telling them lies about how film is better, or how digital sucks, or that real photographers shoot only film is unproductive, and evidence of one's stupidity.
    All your points are good ones but this one is great. Acting against this ethical approach would be akin to saying oil painting is better than watercolor.
    “For me, the camera is a sketch book, an instrument of intuition and spontaneity.”
    ― Henri Cartier-Bresson

  6. #16
    Leighgion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    Telling them lies about how film is better, or how digital sucks, or that real photographers shoot only film is unproductive, and evidence of one's stupidity.
    They're lies easily demolished too, which doesn't help the cause.

  7. #17
    darkosaric's Avatar
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    Show them some nice B&W prints, on double weight fiber based paper. Let them touch the paper also. After that - they will say: I want this! At least that is how I got in to this beautiful world of traditional photography

  8. #18
    wclark5179's Avatar
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    "Attracting new film users."

    Gosh, I feel for you; however, please let me tell you this.

    Our TCPPA (Twin Cities Professional Photographers Association) meets each month at a Vocational School located in Eden Prairie, MN. You would fine about 0 people who use film anymore in their daily workflow. At our last meeting, I visited with an instructor at his office and noticed several D-2 Series Omega Enlargers on a cart. They were taking them out as they came to the conclusion that the future for the young new photographers is to be involved in digital in the capture, process and viewing stages.

    Sorry to be the bearer of this news. But digital has changed photography. If you want to make a living in this industry then you have to go where the bucks are. If you have a day job in another field or income from another source then bless you and go for it. Or maybe have a rich relative!

    Otherwise to advise a new student to go into film as a career is a mistake from several vantage points. Or go into photography as an art or passion, whatever, but don't go into it to make a decent living. It's hard enough as it is w/o throwing out road blocks to achieve some sort of financial success with photography with a film medium.

    Now crucify & have at me for my comments. However, I've done OK in the photography industry.
    Bill Clark

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by z3guy View Post
    . . . We begin with "taking the camera off of automatic" and go from there.
    Ah, that stinks. After forty years of film photography I finally found a camera with automatic features that I like, and I noticed a marked increase in quality and output. I'm not going back. No way.

    Showing newcomers some "original prints" by "master printers" might be enlightening.
    Last edited by anon12345; 06-02-2010 at 01:55 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #20
    Slixtiesix's Avatar
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    Just show them some slides in 120 or 4x5". From my own experience, this tends to astound the people...

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