Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,517   Posts: 1,572,188   Online: 1108
      
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: TZS or NOT

  1. #11
    Greg Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Crestview Hills, KY
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,950
    Butcher does not change development times for any of his negatives, regardless of exposure. This is different from the Zone System, where one may develop more or less than normal to change the contrast of the scene. He meters, exposes as the meter indicates, then develops his film (T-Max 100) following the manufacturer's time for every sheet.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  2. #12
    hrst's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,300
    Images
    1
    And, zone system is NOT a synonym for overexposing, pull processing, underexposing and push processing! You can do all of these things without the Zone System. You can also visualize the final print in your mind without the Zone System. In fact, it might be even easier when you are not lost in technical details; what I mean, for many people, it's easier to think "this scene has a bit too much contrast, I'll underdevelop this sheet of film!" than to think; "this scene has details on zone II to zone VIVIVIVIViVvviivVXXIiblah blah MCMXIV 538968.135" .

    You DON'T need the zone system to do these basic things. You can evaluate the contrast range of a scene by eye - or meter it with light meter - and decide to do pull development or push development depending on the contrast. You can "expose for the shadows". And, you can place the "shadows" in your mind where you want them to be.

    These all things are very basics and explained in many books and datasheets, before and after ZS. Zone System is just a one man's self-made, nontechnical numerical tool (that still SOUNDS technical) to assist this process, and some people find it very useful, some people find it cumbersome. It's up to you. Learn the basics and use what works for you!

    I find that, in general, the Zone System has done more harm than good by preventing people from learning the very basics and understanding their real meanings by confusing themselves by this arbitrary system. This probably wasn't Ansel Adams' purpose! He just made a system that made most sense for himself.
    Last edited by hrst; 09-18-2010 at 04:36 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    1,344
    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post

    I find that, in general, the Zone System has done more harm than good by preventing people from learning the very basics and understanding their real meanings by confusing themselves by this arbitrary system. This probably wasn't Ansel Adams' purpose! He just made a system that made most sense for himself.
    Them's fightin' words!

    I doubt Adams would consider his system arbitrary. It is based on basic sensitometric priciples. It is confusing as he explains it in his texts, but they really are not intended for beginners.

    Try reading Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop. It is no longer in print, but about a zillion copies are available. It is not the best organized text, but it does simplify the zone system and explains using meters, exposing and processing film very well. Phil Davis' Beyond the Zone System is another good one.

    That someone does or does not use the zone system has little to do with proper exposure and development for his or her particular working method. I think we all settle into a system that works for us and gives us the results we want. It takes time, practice, and a lot of film. It also depends on personal style and the desired "look" of the finished piece. Not everyone wants to make f/64-Group, Zone System Ansel Weston Edward Adams pictures.

    Peter Gomena

  4. #14
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Milton, DE, USA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    6,980
    Blog Entries
    29
    Images
    19
    Did you ever try and get up with Mr. Butcher? Ya know, he was on BBC America on Sep 14. He has a couple video on their site as well.

    Just curious, though.
    Thank you.
    CWalrath
    APUG BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE
    DE Darkroom

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Carbondale, IL
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
    The Zone System is only a tool for the exposure of film and its subsequent development.

    It does not improve an indifferent photograph


    Martin

    Agreed, I use TZS principles to help me previz a scene that I have already put the effort into choosing based on aesthetic criteria. One of which is quality of light. TZS help me with the quantity of light issues.
    M. David Farrell, Jr.

    ----------------------------------------------
    ~Buying a Nikon doesn not make you a photographer. It makes you a Nikon owner!

    ~Everybody has a photographic memory, but not everybody has film!

  6. #16
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Milton, DE, USA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    6,980
    Blog Entries
    29
    Images
    19
    All the Zone System does for me is to get consistent results from the creative choices I make.
    Thank you.
    CWalrath
    APUG BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE
    DE Darkroom

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Plymouth. UK.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,403
    Images
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Davis View Post
    Butcher does not change development times for any of his negatives, regardless of exposure. This is different from the Zone System, where one may develop more or less than normal to change the contrast of the scene. He meters, exposes as the meter indicates, then develops his film (T-Max 100) following the manufacturer's time for every sheet.
    What ever it is that Clyde Butcher does, it seems to work well for him.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin