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  1. #21
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    But the term "hold back" refers specifically to physically holding back light from the enlarger from hitting the paper, not aesthetically to tonality on the print.

    Semantics are very important, especially on the Internet. Of course everyone here talking about it knew what you meant; but it is still awkward at best to those who got what you meant, and potentially quite confusing to someone who is not conceptually sound in the basics of printing.

    So, we are not witch hunting you for using a phrase in a non-conventional way. We are just trying to clarify for other potential readers.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-01-2011 at 03:58 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #22
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    Well, I agree to the awkward part, but now I'm just defending my ability to keep language fluid. (and I'm quitting smoking, so confrontation is therapeutic)

    "Holding back" could specifically refer to holding back the light of those highlights in the scene that were originally too bright.

    Potato, potato
    Tomato, tomato
    Let's call the whole thing off!

    (in good spirit)
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  3. #23
    Dan Henderson's Avatar
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    it is so much fun to start an argument then stand back and watch...but I can't help jumping back in here!

    Holmburgers, what is the point of having a language if meaning can be "fluid?" If people can decide that the accepted opposite of a word is also correct, we lose the ability to communicate with one another, which is the purpose of a language.

    I guess you can decide to apply your own meanings to words or phrases, but you shouldn't get upset when others don't understand what you mean.
    Last edited by Dan Henderson; 03-01-2011 at 04:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.


    web site: Dan Henderson, Photographer.com

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    I am not anti-digital. I am pro-film.

  4. #24
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Underexposure will be easy to commit, overexposure will be nearly impossible (in the shadows especially). That being said, give it hell and hold back the burnt out lights when printing.
    To me, if you'd said "pull back" it would have been clear. But "hold back" is used in a very specific way for printing.
    You could in some situations hold back the lights during exposure, by blocking that part of the image with an ND filter, or by blocking it with something opaque, which is then removed partway through. I've done it effectively with transparencies.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  5. #25
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    "Holding back" could specifically refer to holding back the light of those highlights in the scene that were originally too bright.
    I agree that it could. But it doesn't here, the way it was stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    That being said, give it hell and hold back the burnt out lights when printing.
    It could mean that if it was specified that you were talking about tonality, and not the physical act of blocking light from the enlarger, which is what "hold back" means when used alone in regards to printing.

    For instance, "You need to hold back the highlights from being blown out on the print."

    The term becomes "hold back from blowing out," so it makes sense. It is awkward, but at least someone listening/reading does not need to dig for or "be in on" an implied meaning.

    Or, in regards to film processing (though you said initially that your statement was in regards to printing), "With development alteration, you can hold back the density of the highlights."

    The term becomes "hold back density," so it makes sense.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-01-2011 at 04:40 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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