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  1. #41
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Scanning is like making and interneg, it is an intermediate step towards image creation.
    Bad interneg, bad print
    Bad Scan , bad print

  2. #42
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Scanning is like making and interneg, it is an intermediate step towards image creation.
    Bad interneg, bad print
    Bad Scan , bad print
    And I would add; bad scan, bad density readings.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #43
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    ...bad scan, bad density readings...
    Just re-asserting. VueScan drives the scanner at a low level, without significant adjustment the numbers appear accurate and in density form (for example 0.22 - 0.85 for a very thin neg of my grandfather that my densitometer confirmed is 0.26 - 0.64 it can't measure the small 'highlight') and I go no further than Preview.

    ---
    If it weren't for the standards upheld by APUG mediators and self-mediation, my vision for my own darkroom processes (I'm opening up the faucet) would not be as clear as it is today.

    I use Zone System for silver gelatin prints that are done fully analog, with a couple electronic devices used for specific purposes. I may possess devices that would be useful in a hybrid process, but I choose (I'm getting out my trays) analog.

    I use the Zone System with adaptations for the 21st century (I'm opening up Notepad on my computer just to get a white screen to examine negatives by) because I can reflect back on all the advice learned and taught over the years.

    Today I am doing a 4x5 print on 11x14. Thanks to Bob Carnie's advice, I am doing 3 prints. I do not have a 4x5 scanner so although I talked in this thread of using scanners for the job, I am reading densities with a real densitometer. (B+F 0.15 Placed shadow 0.55 Clouds 1.77 Typical high values 1.16).

    There they are, three spots in the sky. Out comes the Adams and Bausch and Lomb. It's hard to treat black spots on prints so I am going to opaque them out. They'll be easy to spot on the print later.

  4. #44
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    I just have to report. I went to print two sheets of "PRINTS - Darkroom Session Notes" and after the first sheet came out (the one I need today), I got the dreaded pop-up "color and black ink cartridges need to be replaced."

    Another reminder why I come here for sanctuary.

  5. #45
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post

    (I'm opening up Notepad on my computer just to get a white screen to examine negatives by)
    Bill:

    Try Blank.org in your browser
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #46
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    Blank.org
    Another site to spend hours a day at...

    So there I was this morning. Kids fed, sink ready, neg retouched and in the enlarger.

    My 9-yr old boy urgently tugs at my arm and asks me to set his clock for him. He said it just started blinking... after sister spilled her root beer on the VCR.

    After cleaning up the mess and repairing the VCR I finally got back into the darkroom and made my 3 prints. They're toned and drying on screens now. I was thinking Grade 2 but pulled out a sheet of Grade 3 instead. 7 seconds burn-in on the sky and 5 seconds dodge on the trees.

  7. #47
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    I looked over at DPUG and see they have a pretty good thread going on this topic of scanner-as-densitometer. The responsible thing would have been for me to actually run a series of sensitometer tests and compare the graphs from densitometer to graphs of same negatives using scanner-as-densitometer.

    I might rise to that challenge next time I develop some 35mm. Until then, sorry I should have provided some more useful information and gone further than making the trivial statement "yeah it can be done".

  8. #48
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    It sounds like, in general, a scanner can't handle the density of an analog negative; having posed the quesiton on DPUG.

    That makes sense, given the horrible exposure capabilities of most flat-beds.

    So in the end, it might be a moot point, but any investigation would be worthy nonetheless.

    Here is the thread I assume you're referring to, though it was originally created to discuss calibrating negatives for papers/print processes. Is this it, or is there a better one?
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

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