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  1. #21

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    The highway to the sky is closed, too much SNOW!

  2. #22
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscott View Post
    Did you hear that the sea ice grew by 29% in 2013? Probably not. Big time denial going on amongst the warming crowd.
    As gently and non-controversially as I can make this crucial point to a well-meaning fellow APUGger...

    Just this afternoon while sitting out on my backyard deck I mentioned to the wife that we had never once seen an elephant in our yard. Well then, she replied, I guess they must be extinct. Thinking about this for a moment I realized I couldn't disagree, as that's exactly what my eyes were telling me...



    And yes, I did hear that. Did you also hear that the long-term trend line for that particular metric has been moving in the other direction for over a quarter-of-a-century now? You see, it's really not about the individual data point. It's about the total of all of the data points taken together and properly interpreted. Science is not politics.



    Reference: Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History, Forces of Change, Arctic, Shrinking Sea Ice



    Reference: National Snow and Ice Data Center, Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis, Sept 20, 2013

    "On September 13, Arctic sea ice reached its likely minimum extent for 2013. The minimum ice extent was the sixth lowest in the satellite record, and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent."

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  3. #23
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Read the current issue of National Geographic!

  4. #24

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    I have one family member who is the nation's leading appellate lawyer on coastal law, and recently headed a big conference revolving around
    all the legal issues which are beginning to transpire when the definition of "mean high tide" in relation to title is steadily changing. ... and lest
    just say his personal political views do not coincide with the stereotypes. It just a fact that has to be contended with now, whether shoreline realtors like it or not. Another family member has inherited the mantle from me, and runs a geophysics company, but also has a very extensive pro climbing and arctic exploration background, and does a fair amt of glaciology studies, and is certainly not a part of some political conspiracy to invent something like this. My own field of study involved the nature of the close of the ice age, and that is still the closest parallel to certain modeling studies about what might or might not happen due to the current roll of the dice. But at this stage of the
    game, fluctuations are being studied over hundreds of thousands of years, involving ice cores, lakebed cores, foram (microfossil) coastal
    deposits, relict glacial and periglacial deposits, etc etc etc. It's interdisciplinary and worldwide, and a line of research that was well underway
    before anybody ever heard of Al Gore, and before even he ever heard of global warming. Certain things, like the link to CO2 and other greenhouse gasses, are a relatively new tweak, but by that, we're still going back about forty years. Otherwise, it has long been recognized
    that things started getting out of whack at the start of the industrial revolution and its burning of coal. So photographically... if you want to
    see those turquoise waters of true glacial lakes in the lower 48, that might be a much scarcer opportunity to the next generation. For all
    I know, our midwestern breadbasket could resemble the Sahel or even Sahara in another hundred years. When the ice age "ended" roughly
    12,000 years, it was not a gentle transition at all, but involved wild catastrophic fluctuations once things got out of equilibrium. Maybe nobody knows exactly what will happen this next time around, but let's just say I wouldn't personally invest in any Miami real estate!

  5. #25
    jcc
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    The Earth is warming. That's observable data and is not up for discussion or denial (which differentiates it from an opinion or belief).

    Politically, you can argue who is to blame and start pointing fingers, but there's really no "warming crowd". There's just going to be a lot of "dead" when the ecosystem changes due to climate (this one is my opinion, but we can wait till it becomes an observation).

    But back to the OP: Glacier is open year round, as someone already stated. I'd buy/rent a -40º sleeping bag if you're visiting during the winter months, and keep it in the car with you while you drive.
    Last edited by jcc; 10-01-2013 at 05:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Faux News Network before you tangle with a subject like this. Glaciers are shrinking all over the world at an accelerated rate, with just a few exceptions. Maybe 2/3 of them that I've set foot on in my lifetime are now gone.
    Faux News? Are you talking about NYT or what? I've not heard of that one. As for winter opportunities in snow country, my vote would be for either Yellowstone or Custer State Park.


    Kent in SD

  7. #27
    JimO's Avatar
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    photography.....

    can we leave the political debate at the door... i come here for photography and could get sucked into the political debate to easily. Too often that debate is filled with ignorance, hyperbole, "excited utterances", opinion, mistruth and other useless detritus

    thanks!!

  8. #28

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    There is no debate. If you want to see glaciers in "Glacier National Park", you better do it soon! If you want to eat our west coast oysters when visiting our Natl Seashore here, you better do it very soon, because they are having a very hard time reproducing due to the rapid pH changes in the ocean. Your own coral reefs are endangered for the very same reason. Never mind the science if you wish, but for those of us who are mainly outdoor photographers, this topic is pretty conspicuous in even a purely travel sense. There is nothing "hyperbole" about our catastrophic forest fires in the West. That kind of thing can turn away a visit to Glacier, Yellowstone, or Yosemite too. It's happened to me, more than once. Or the weather can be abnormally unpredictable in the opposite direction. I've been in blizzards three out of the four last summers. There was nothing "hyperbole" about the dayhiking photographers who froze to death due to naive stereotypes about summer weather, while I was comfortably tucked inside a down sleeping bag in my tent waiting out the storm.

  9. #29
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Science is not politics.
    ..
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

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