I agree the ss# request is odd, but I don't think it was racially profiled. Both the cop and the photographer were caucasion. I think both of them acted like children, but the cop was totally in the wrong.
Originally Posted by phfitz
Utah is a "funny" place where there isn't a lot of diversity but not a lot racial problems either. When there are problems it seems it's usually the latinos who suffer from being targeted by police or screwed over by despicable employers because they're undocumented.
This might sound like a 'soap box' thread but it does involve all photographers.
"I agree the ss# request is odd, but I don't think it was racially profiled. Both the cop and the photographer were caucasion."
It does not matter who they are or what they look like, there is no legitimate reason for a police officer to ever ask for a SSN, no professional police officer I have ever met would be that stupid. It can only be taken as 'racial profiling', illegal aliens do not have SSNs. It sound like this practice is S.O.P. for that P.D. which would make for a really large lawsuit.
The F.B.I. not doing their homework on this and now looking like idiots should have J. Edgar spinning like a top. If the F.B.I.'s actions caused the firing, they have cause measurable damages and immeasurable damages to her professional reputation AND they have deep pockets.
"We should NEVER allow our constitutionally given rights to be subsumed "temporarily" in the name of "security".
I do agree with the sentiment BUT I will pick a nit here. We have all the rights in the world and they all end at the tip of our noses NOT the other guys. The Constitution does not grant/give/guarantee any rights, it only specifies how the govt. may infringe on our rights.
I hope she rides them like a pony with the lawsuit.
You can not call it racial profiling if there is no race involved, both were white, and asking for a SSN may in itself be wrong, but I can't for the life of me see where this would be racial profiling, illegal aliens come in all sizes, shapes and colors! so it does not sound at all like race was involved in the stupidity.
Originally Posted by phfitz
Heck here in Montana, they don't have to ask for our SSN number our SSN number is the same as our drivers license number, so they got it when they get your ID!, now the law has just been changed to allow us to choose not to have our Drivers Lic number be our SSN, but for many years, that was the only number you had for your Drivers Lic.
I still don't understand how it can be racial profiling, if race was not involved in the action, racial profiling by definition is the act of saying a certain race is prone to certain actions, so we need to watch them, I still have never heard that the photographer has been declared a seperate race of human!?
Dave, it doesn't have to make sense, it's the 21st century, the lawsuit lottery.
"You can not call it racial profiling if there is no race involved, both were white, and asking for a SSN may in itself be wrong, but I can't for the life of me see where this would be racial profiling, illegal aliens come in all sizes, shapes and colors! so it does not sound at all like race was involved in the stupidity."
The simple act of a police officer asking for a SSN, when they have absolutely no **legitimate** reason to do so, can and would be considered "racial profiling" and can start a lovely little lawsuit.
A case in Calf. 4 years ago had it that a police officer asking for an insurance card was "racial profiling" of blacks and latinos.
I guess it's the easy buck everyone is after.
I think we all agree the cop was so far outside his bounds that he deserves whatever lawsuit he gets.
I'm still not sure about the profiling thing. Not trying to argue, just trying to figure it out. I know there was a thing here (utah) about latinos being more likely to be pulled over or stopped by the police. That smacks of profiling and it shouldn't be tolorated. But I'm still trying to see how the white officer was profiling a white photographer. Granted, there have been white people who blow up gov buildings (murderous extremists come in all colors) and Utah has more than it's share of crazy people.
So the white cop sees this white lady taking pictures and equates her with a white extremist bombing recon? I guess I need more information on what constitutes profiling.
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There has to be more to this than we have been told in the little media printed about it. I'm not saying it didn't happen the way the lady claims, just there is more about this that just is not being reported. Remember there are two sides. Yet we have only heard one.
It was 1979 in Cedar City Utah that I had a similar incident about ID and the police. The town was just 5000 people at the time. I was in my apartment, and my boyfriend had my car at his parents house working on it. It also had my Dr. Lic. in the glove compartment. I know it is stupid to keep it there, but at the time I did. I had a knock on the door, and opened it to be greeted by two plain clothes policemen. They were looking for a girl named Sarah. I was not what you would call a person who looked liked a non white. I had long blond hair down to my waist that was natural color then. When I couldn't produce my Dr. Lic. to prove who I was, I was asked for my SSN. Is that what happend in SLC as well? When the woman first refused to give her ID did the policeman ask for a SSN in lieu of the ID? How did she claim to refuse to give the ID? Did she say she didn't have it with her? Or did she flat out say no I will not give it to you? We don't know. Like I said there is more to this story than what is on the surface reported on one side. It may well be as she claims, I don't know. I would rather hear all sides and know for sure.
As to the claim of her losing her job, again we do not know if this was part of it, or was she one that had been causing trouble prior to this. Seeing as how she has had other problems, the company may have been fed up with it all, or it may have been something completely unrelated to these incidents. We don't know. We are only hearing her claims, and not the rebuttal. Yes I did read the inital article.
Profiling was just a thought, I think both the cop and woman should and will learn the 7 magic words:
I have to agree with Aggie, no one knows half of 1 side of this story let alone the whole of both sides. Both were idiots but the cop acting in the offical capacity of an 'officer of the court' completely changes the complexion of his actions.
"Is that what happend in SLC as well? When the woman first refused to give her ID did the policeman ask for a SSN in lieu of the ID? How did she claim to refuse to give the ID? Did she say she didn't have it with her? Or did she flat out say no I will not give it to you? We don't know."
Did the cop ask her for her I.D. *&* SSN.??? Therein lies the problem. If he asked for both, S.L.C.P.D. should get ready for a lawsuit>
asking for both I.D. *&* SSN=
trolling for illegal aliens=
abuse of public office=
U.S. Supreme Court
No one wants this, especially the Feds, so this will probably disappear, settled out of court. Then again, if a lawfirm thinks the expense is worth the boost to their reputation by WINNING at the Supreme Court, this silly little nothing could set off a firestorm.
Let's watch and see.
Ridiculous. No doubt another one of O'Connor and Kennedy's tenuous "Decisions derived from foreign law" having nothing whatsoever to do with the US Constitution. If we don't get our supreme court under control soon we may as well get rid of the other branches of government. Kiss the Republic goodbye and All hail the Oligarchy.
Originally Posted by phfitz
Even if she sues the cops... this is Utah.
Bush approval rating is 62% here. Nationally is is 31%.
Those in authority are presumed to be right, from the Mormon Church President to the lowliest 'leader' while performing their duties, jobs or church callings. Here you can't really separate Church and State.
The prevailing attitude is simple. She was doing 'something wrong' or she wouldn't have been questioned. She was doing 'something wrong' or she would not have tried to hide who she is.
The cop was putting himself 'on the line' for the safety of us all.
Welcome to Utah.
It happens in other states as well. What was it two years ago we had the story of the kid in Seattle going through this same thing? Hell I got arrested for shooting my wisner canon and holding my light meter gun at an old house in the Delta region of California. Didn't matter I was on a public road at the time. Utah doesn't have a lock on stupidity.
Originally Posted by WarEaglemtn