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  1. #21
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob F.
    Ermmm... once again, a little reality... The UK is the largest destination for legal migration in Europe. More people from the new EU countries come to live and work in the UK than anywhere else in Europe - estimated at 150,000 in the last 12 months. 25% of all investment into the EU comes to the UK. 60% of all US investment in Europe as a whole comes to the UK. Hardly indicators of "protection of nation from anyone coming on the homeland".

    The UK has the 2nd largest economy in Europe (Germany being no.1) and the 4th largest in the world. Also fyi, there is no "health insurance" in the UK - it is ALL free, paid for from taxation. Speaking of which, taxation is the lowest of all the large EU countries - Britain is in fact in 17th place of the group of 25 EU nations for taxation as a percentage of GDP.

    Cheers, Bob.
    I knew it was good here Bob; but didn’t know it was that good. Now, can you do something about the weather please; it’s far too cold at the moment?
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  2. #22
    Bob F.'s Avatar
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    Ah, well... short term weather conditions are unfortunately beyond human control (and in the case of the British Isles, beyond human comprehension) but hang on a bit and global warming will do the trick eventually... Besides, the Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Drift/Atlantic Conveyor (choose your favourite name for it) means we are several degrees warmer than the same latitudes in, well, say, Russia, for example... (see: even Mother Nature likes us - even if some people who rely on politically biased and oppressed media for their information do not... ).

    'Scuse me - I have to go now and put Elgar on the stereo, put a recording of Last Night of The Proms on the TV and dance a one-man conga through the house whilst singing "Knees up Mother Brown"...

    Cheers, Bob.

  3. #23

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    Yes, I agree that I apparently know but a few things about the UK economy, but I clearly see that the UK is indeed accepting many many legal migrants. Including the whole pack of Russian nouveau riches, who did steal zillions of property from our people (Gussinsky, Berezovsky, Abramovitch), and the big team of Chechen separatists including Mr. Zakaev. They all use UK as a shelter for their propaganda and dirty tricks, and invest the stolen money in its economy... and that's under the label of democracy and freedom of speech.

    Ah well, such is life...

    Zhenya

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob F.
    It may be a language problem, but you seem to have very strong views about a country you have clearly demonstrated that you know nothing about, and for reasons that do not make much logical sense...

    Ah well, such is life...

    Cheers, Bob.

  4. #24
    BarryWilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob F.
    Ermmm... once again, a little reality... The UK is the largest destination for legal migration in Europe. More people from the new EU countries come to live and work in the UK than anywhere else in Europe - estimated at 150,000 in the last 12 months. 25% of all investment into the EU comes to the UK. 60% of all US investment in Europe as a whole comes to the UK. Hardly indicators of "protection of nation from anyone coming on the homeland".

    The UK has the 2nd largest economy in Europe (Germany being no.1) and the 4th largest in the world. Also fyi, there is no "health insurance" in the UK - it is ALL free, paid for from taxation. Speaking of which, taxation is the lowest of all the large EU countries - Britain is in fact in 17th place of the group of 25 EU nations for taxation as a percentage of GDP.

    It may be a language problem, but you seem to have very strong views about a country you have clearly demonstrated that you know nothing about, and for reasons that do not make much logical sense...

    Ah well, such is life...

    Cheers, Bob.
    I cannot totally agree with you Bob.

    Off course Britain looks good at the moment to the Poles, Estonian's etc, look at their starting point. But I don't think they will stay for the long term. As soon as their economies get up to speed with the rest of the EU, their homeland will look a much better choice. The investment oportunities for business in these countries are great and I believe will eventualy have an impact here. Skilled workers, low set-up costs, better tax regimes...

    If we are down at 17th in the EU taxation scale, why are most goods dearer here than in the rest of Europe? That implies that the high prices are due to greedy companies setting their RRP high. This may have something to do with it , but it's also due to 'Stealth taxes', high business rates (Local taxes) and current employment legislation.


    Barry
    UK

    ps I don't think I would call the NHS 'free' after seeing my NI Bill for last year.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stanworth
    I would just like to point out that I also think that there is a difference between being shocked at price differences and generally running down one´s country. The latter was not what was intended, only that the huge difference (in some cases 300-400%) considering that the stores turnover of such goods was probably tiny made me wonder. I love Britain dearly, but find (found) the extraordinary cost of living prohibitive. It is one thing if you bought a house many years ago or are dual income, quite another if you are a young scamp looking to get established (with a family heaven forbid). The price differences are going somewhere!

    I will continue to buy my materials from the chap´s small store - he saved my bacon! Its just a pain that I can only get hold of a few basic chems (the other side of the coin). Just hope FP4 Plus goes well in the TMAX dev! Reasultant images to posted in about a year or two from now, once I have a new house, new darkroom etc!

    Tom
    Aaaah Tom. You can't do that to us!!

    Wish I'd worked out earlier that you were actually going to the land of toreadors, flamenco dancers and cathedrals. I would have mentioned ARPI in Barcelona. I guess Spains answer to Calumet or B&H. Worth dropping into their 3 floored store just to see the models of ULF cameras and bundles of sheet film on display. Does the heart good.

  6. #26

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    I would just like to point out that I also think that there is a difference between being shocked at price differences and generally running down one´s country. The latter was not what was intended, only that the huge difference (in some cases 300-400%) considering that the stores turnover of such goods was probably tiny made me wonder. I love Britain dearly, but find (found) the extraordinary cost of living prohibitive. It is one thing if you bought a house many years ago or are dual income, quite another if you are a young scamp looking to get established (with a family heaven forbid). The price differences are going somewhere!

    I will continue to buy my materials from the chap´s small store - he saved my bacon! Its just a pain that I can only get hold of a few basic chems (the other side of the coin). Just hope FP4 Plus goes well in the TMAX dev! Reasultant images to posted in about a year or two from now, once I have a new house, new darkroom etc!

    Tom

  7. #27
    Bob F.'s Avatar
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    Tom, I agree - the vast majority will return home eventually. I wasn't suggesting that they would be staying for life, only using it as one example to refute the absurd notion that Britain wants to keep people away and uses high taxation etc as a method of doing so...

    There are 25 countries in the EU - so you will always find somewhere where a particular item is cheaper. But yes, certain consumer items such as cars are generally more expensive, but that's mainly the car manufacturers taking advantage of EU rules that largely exempt them from normal EU trade regulations that would otherwise make it a criminal offence. They have reduced the price difference in recent years and the prices are now more competitive (but still a little high). Other items such as booze and cigs attract special taxes, but the vast majority of goods either attract standard VAT at 17.5% or none at all. Any difference must then be attributable to either the manufacturer, distributor or retailer taking a larger cut, or the differences in exchange rates (Sterling has been trading historically high for some years now as the UK economy has grown at a higher rate than most of the other G8 countries, increasing the cost of imports). If we had joined the Euro, it would be easier to make a direct comparison.

    Other than in a few cases, I am not convinced by the "Rip-Off Britain" argument. I think it's largely more of a "the grass is always greener" effect than anything else. Ask a Scandinavian how much they pay for beer, ask a French businessman how much his company pays in local and national taxes in the form of "social payments", or ask a Dutchman about his petrol bill... It's swings and roundabouts, IMO...

    The NHS is "free at the point of supply" to use the original term used to sell the idea to the people in the 1940's. Obviously, it has to be paid for from somewhere. I for one would rather pay through taxes than have to rely on private Health Insurance and never be sure if I have sufficient coverage in the event of accident or serious illness, or if I lose my job and can no longer afford the payments etc, etc... Stuff that for a lark!

    Cheers, Bob.

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