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  1. #71

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    I'm with worker 11811. If a retailer isn't holding stock of what I want to buy or compare; if they can't talk about how it works and its good/bad points in a knowledgable and cogent fashion; and can't treat me nicely instead of viewing me as some inconvenience that's wasting their time, then for me it doesn't matter one jot whether they exist or not. It is for the retailer to use their ingenuity and business acumen to arrive at ways they can attract customers in a world where they are doomed to be more expensive. It isn't for the customer to forgive them their failures. If the retailer thinks he can do that whilst offering worse service, less information, less stock, and worse prices, then best of luck with that.

    Meanwhile it was a telephone /internet photographic seller who maybe ten years ago realised in the course of a call with me that they'd messed up my film order and had missed the post. I was due to travel on an assignment the following day. They got in a car and drove nearly 100 miles round trip to get me the film on time. I just can't imagine any retail outlet of my knowledge doing that. I'd like to think that this outlet got enough business from me after this event to have made their gesture worthwhile.

  2. #72

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    I can understand "traditional" photo-shops feeling upset when potential customers use their expertise and then buy elsewhere at a lower price. (I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that myself, but many people see nothing wrong in it.)

    But mail order and cut-price "box shifters" businesses have been set up by entrepreneurs who have seen an opportunity and demand, and, if the traditional shops failed to see this and take the opportunity themselves, they can hardly blame their customers. I'm not taking sides on whether this is, morally, right-or-wrong, but it's a fact of capitalism. We've seen what is happening to Kodak, who (arguably) seem to have missed opportunities and changing circumstances, while Amazon, etc., flourish (yet still seem to offer very good, if rather impersonal, service).

  3. #73
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    I've had some decidedly unpleasant JB Hifi experiences here, so I'm not suprised they'd be charging a look-see fee. What took the cake was the incident of the iPhone car kit - I was buying computer gear, trackpad and some other stuff, about $300 or so and they had the car kit I wanted... at an outrageous price compared to what Apple was selling it for.
    So I asked if they would price match with Apple.
    "Nah" was the surly response, so I smiled sweetly, said to the sales drone "here, hold these" and handed him the other items I was going to buy.

    Then I walked out the store. Never spent a cent there since.

    On the other hand I do my best to support the serious camera stores we have here. Especially the one with the on-site lab and the young sales guy who's response to me dropping off some Velvia was a friendly "what you shooting with?" followed by "sweet man, same here" when I told him it was an F4.
    Mamiya 645 Super | Nikon F4/F100/FM2n | Minolta Maxxum 9/Dynax 7/X-700/X-500/XD7/SRT-101 | Pentax Spotmatic | Canonet QL 19 (GII) | and a whole bunch of glass

  4. #74
    John Austin's Avatar
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    This is why we are so lucky!!

    All this JB-LowFi stuff is another reason for me to keep using silver jelly and cameras from the 1960s and 1970s and another reason I feel lucky to be a silver jelly film user - The one thing the sales being from JB-LowFi I have encountered knew about cameras was his sales commission (Joondalup Shopping Center, WA, about eighteen months ago)

  5. #75
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    The reason they don't have it in stock and "can order it for you" Randy is that as the economy gets tougher and tougher stores can't afford to keep large amounts stock on the shelves that isn't selling because they have to pay for their inventory on their shelves which is dead money and could be worth hundreds of thousands of £ or $ accruing no interest until it is sold, so they use the importers or wholesalers as a warehouse for the less popular items to save money and get them for customers on request, so they aren't carrying things in stock that aren't selling on a regular basis.
    But that's the thing. I usually don't go into a store looking for oddball stuff. For photo stuff, I'm just looking for the staples. Things lik D-76, Stop Bath, Fixer, HCA and PhotoFlo. My store usually stocks a selection of Ilford papers and at least one brand of film in 400 and 100 ISO. About three times per year, at the beginning of every school term, they'll stock up on supplies. Toward the end of the term, their supplies dwindle. These are things to be expected in any retail business. These are not the things that bother me.

    When I go shopping, I'll usually have a certain brand or product in mind. I often look for it on the internet, first, and see if any local stores carry that item or at least that brand or a similar product line. At this point, I believe it is reasonable to go to a store and ask for a specific product. At this point, I believe it is reasonable to complain when the store doesn't have what you want. How else can a store know what products the customers want to buy if they don't tell the staff what they are looking for and when they don't complain (with reasonable manners) when they don't have what people want?

    On the other hand, if I go to the store and they have what I'm looking for, it is reasonalbe for the salesman to expect me to buy.
    If the price isn't too expensive, compared to other stores and if you take internet pricing into account (product price + shipping/tax + reasonable retail markup) I, most often, buy on the spot. Why would any half-intelligent person spend the gas money, brave the traffic and generally withstand the hassle of going to the mall if he didn't intend to buy something?

    The exception to that would be if you are already in the store and you ask an off-the-cuff question for a product.
    If I was leaving the store and, on the way out, I asked, "Hey, do you have any Tri-X?" I wouldn't expect the guy to jump up and get it right now. If he answered, "We're all out but our order comes in next week," I'd be fine with that.

    I guess the bottom line is that it's all about context. I understand that. However, the retail trade is all about selling customers the products they want to buy at the prices they can afford to pay. When a store consistently doesn't meet expectations, they won't have much business... at least not MY business!
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  6. #76
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    But that's the thing. I usually don't go into a store looking for oddball stuff. For photo stuff, I'm just looking for the staples. Things lik D-76, Stop Bath, Fixer, HCA and PhotoFlo. My store usually stocks a selection of Ilford papers and at least one brand of film in 400 and 100 ISO. About three times per year, at the beginning of every school term, they'll stock up on supplies. Toward the end of the term, their supplies dwindle. These are things to be expected in any retail business. These are not the things that bother me.

    When I go shopping, I'll usually have a certain brand or product in mind. I often look for it on the internet, first, and see if any local stores carry that item or at least that brand or a similar product line. At this point, I believe it is reasonable to go to a store and ask for a specific product. At this point, I believe it is reasonable to complain when the store doesn't have what you want. How else can a store know what products the customers want to buy if they don't tell the staff what they are looking for and when they don't complain (with reasonable manners) when they don't have what people want?

    On the other hand, if I go to the store and they have what I'm looking for, it is reasonalbe for the salesman to expect me to buy.
    If the price isn't too expensive, compared to other stores and if you take internet pricing into account (product price + shipping/tax + reasonable retail markup) I, most often, buy on the spot. Why would any half-intelligent person spend the gas money, brave the traffic and generally withstand the hassle of going to the mall if he didn't intend to buy something?

    The exception to that would be if you are already in the store and you ask an off-the-cuff question for a product.
    If I was leaving the store and, on the way out, I asked, "Hey, do you have any Tri-X?" I wouldn't expect the guy to jump up and get it right now. If he answered, "We're all out but our order comes in next week," I'd be fine with that.

    I guess the bottom line is that it's all about context. I understand that. However, the retail trade is all about selling customers the products they want to buy at the prices they can afford to pay. When a store consistently doesn't meet expectations, they won't have much business... at least not MY business!
    Manufacturers and wholesalers have minimum order charges and if a retailer doesn't sell many of a particular product, perhaps half a dozen a year he is understandably reluctant to order when the minimum order of six dozen, I worked in the photographic retail trade for more than twenty years and know the realitys of stock control and ordering, in the current economic climate retailers are going to stock the products that turn over the quickest to produce the quickest profit, unsold items on the shelves gathering dust are dead money, and if I still was a photographic store manager although I personally have been devoted to analogue photography for a lifetime I wouldn't stock much photo chemistry or paper as a purely commercial decision based on lack of the general public s demand for it, because they think that digital photography is "the best thing since sliced bread" indeed most of them wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it, I'm afraid that the days when shops could have obscure esoteric items on the shelf for years and years in the hope that someone would buy it are over .

    We have to accept that as far as retailing is concerned film photography these days is a minority interest, even my local professional dealers when I was there last week buying film only had a total of about a hundred 135 and 120 films total in stock, and when I asked them why, they said "very few of their pro customers use it".
    Last edited by benjiboy; 01-30-2012 at 01:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

  7. #77
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Yes, I've worked in retail. I have worked in a toy store, a TV store, a furniture store and, recently, a photo studio. My family owned a restaurant when I was a kid, up until I went away to college. A store can't stock every product that any Tom, Dick or Harry walks in and asks for. I get it.

    Again, I don't go into a store looking for off-the-wall stuff. When I do ask for something it is out of a reasonable expectation that they have the product. As I also said, if I do ask for something unusual it is with the understanding that the request is unusual and I don't think the store should be obliged to carry every little thing. However, even in frugal times, it is reasonable for a photography store to carry D-76, stop bath, fixer, HCA and PhotoFlo. Certainly, they'll run out of stock. Every store does, at least once in a while.

    It is not these times when things bother me. What bothers me is when the salesperson doesn't know the product he has, doesn't spend the time to think about the products he has and doesn't take the time to find out. When he gives that stock answer, "I can order it..." is when I get peeved off.

    That's where the thrust of this forum thread is headed. We're talking about stores that don't serve the customer's needs and act like it's the customer's fault that they aren't making money. That's the kind of behavior that is driving customers away from retail. Me included. When I do go to a retail store, I expect stores to serve customers' needs (all customers, not just me) and when I don't get that, I get upset. Rightfully so, I believe.

    If retail is dying, it's not simply because of the customers. It's because the shops aren't responding to what people want.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  8. #78
    eclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomalophicon View Post
    Again customers are treated like crooks. No wonder we don't want to buy retail.

    Many are crooks, they spend an hour of a salesperson's time and then whisk off to the web to make their purchase..An attorney, doctor,accountant or mechanic wouldn't spend time with you for free...EC

  9. #79
    dpn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    But that's the thing. I usually don't go into a store looking for oddball stuff. For photo stuff, I'm just looking for the staples. Things lik D-76, Stop Bath, Fixer, HCA and PhotoFlo.
    These former staples are the new oddball goods, I'm afraid.

  10. #80
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpn View Post
    These former staples are the new oddball goods, I'm afraid.
    Exactly.
    Ben

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