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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasBlute View Post
    Yes, we may have difficulty NOT seeing the 'tank-man' and all that he implies,
    but only if you are familiar with that image, which is not a given.
    I agree, they really can't stand alone. There were one or two cases where I didn't recognize what the original photo was, and of course the result was no impact at all. I think that for general consumption, images like this really need to be shown paired with the originals.

    Focusing on the banality of the 'backdrop' of a photo of this type - again, to my opinion -
    undermines the blunt impact and veracity of the image, akin to pointing out the make of car
    Kennedy was riding in.
    Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. To me it has the opposite effect---but then, so might pointing out the make of car Kennedy was riding in. (Morbid trivia question: What's the only gun make to have been used in two US political assassinations? [see edit below!])

    It reminds me of seeing, a few years ago, a reconstruction of Hitler's office as part of an exhibition. It was an overwhelmingly ordinary office, which to me is much more profoundly scary than if it had been a cartoon supervillain lair. The hard thing to grasp about gigantic events, IMHO, is that they actually tend to happen in the same kind of ordinary contexts in which the rest of our lives happen.

    -NT

    [Edit: I have long had a misapprehension about this; the first version said "two US *Presidential* assassinations, but it turns out I had one of the examples wrong. One President, one major but nonpresidential political figure.]
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Wow, I almost literally could not disagree more. To me they make a huge, incredibly effective point---something about the nature of "significant" events, and how much "significant" is a human concept that we project onto completely indifferent settings. The only one that doesn't work for me is "Berlin, 1945"---it's much changed from the original, but there's so much affective content left in the setting that it doesn't come off as mundane as the others.

    I don't understand how it's possible to see this as "the 'erasing' of history", actually, because the images don't stand by themselves---the point they make is exactly about the importance of what's been erased. Can you elaborate on what you're thinking, a little bit?

    -NT
    As I clicked through the pictures, almost every one invoked an involuntary jolt, similar to a flinch response to a sudden attack. This is not Stallinist erasing. While it will be lost on the ignorant and the young, it did set me wondering what our lives would have been like without all these horrible events.

  3. #13

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    Mannlicher-Carcano rifle 6.5mm caliber Italian surplus military rifle
    President John F. Kennedy
    General Edwin Walker
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

    Regards
    Bill

  4. #14
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasBlute View Post
    People forget a lot, I remember overhearing two teenagers in a bookstore [you cannot make this stuff up]:
    - "wow, a book on Desert Storm"
    - "what's that?"

    -Tim
    At least it wasn't

    - "wow, a book"
    - "what's that?"

    I find the subject of the thread interesting, and as long as the author is transparent about what they are examining, and how they have gone about what they have done, I have no objections.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    I agree, they really can't stand alone. There were one or two cases where I didn't recognize what the original photo was, and of course the result was no impact at all. I think that for general consumption, images like this really need to be shown paired with the originals.



    Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. To me it has the opposite effect---but then, so might pointing out the make of car Kennedy was riding in. (Morbid trivia question: What's the only gun make to have been used in two US political assassinations? [see edit below!])

    It reminds me of seeing, a few years ago, a reconstruction of Hitler's office as part of an exhibition. It was an overwhelmingly ordinary office, which to me is much more profoundly scary than if it had been a cartoon supervillain lair. The hard thing to grasp about gigantic events, IMHO, is that they actually tend to happen in the same kind of ordinary contexts in which the rest of our lives happen.

    -NT

    [Edit: I have long had a misapprehension about this; the first version said "two US *Presidential* assassinations, but it turns out I had one of the examples wrong. One President, one major but nonpresidential political figure.]
    I agree with all your comments.

    It's not "art" but it's very thought provoking. My father went back to Europe and a few of his battle grounds many years after fighting in WW2. I think to try to get some sense of perspective on a place that had such a profound emotional effect on him when he was there as a 24 years old soldier.

    These photographs can illustrate the horror that humans can project upon each other and when looked at later, are nothing but mundane streets, fields or buildings.

    I think the concept is very powerful and extremely interesting.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowanw View Post
    Mannlicher-Carcano rifle 6.5mm caliber Italian surplus military rifle
    President John F. Kennedy
    General Edwin Walker
    Didn't know about that one. Walker survived, though. I was thinking of the Iver Johnson handguns used to assassinate both William McKinley and RFK.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  7. #17
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Here's something we can argue about. Not sure what to make of this. Do I like the results? Or hate the idea?

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...reimagined/?hp
    High-falutin' version of http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Didn't know about that one. Walker survived, though. I was thinking of the Iver Johnson handguns used to assassinate both William McKinley and RFK.

    -NT
    Ah. Except for the fact that Sirhan Sirhan did not shoot RFK at all. A Harrington and Richardson 922 may have been used.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20....assassination
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

    Regards
    Bill

  9. #19

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    I'm so glad Ansel Adams removed the people from his photographs.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    I'm so glad Ansel Adams removed the people from his photographs.
    Not so sure he removed them.

    I think they just died of old age waiting for him to set up the shot.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

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