Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
Stop trying to get into my mind, There is nothing there!
I agree with Jorge. I don't know what threads offend some people, but someone would have to have a pretty thin skin to be offended by any of the posts I've seen (with a couple of exceptions, which were so outrageous no one should have taken it seriously).
Some of the threads drift, usually into pretty humourous areas, and I would not like that to stop.
Originally Posted by Jorge
I agree that we shold treat each other with respect, but I also agree that we should be able to joke with each other too. I do not see these two things as mutually exclusive.
I feel sad that someone was so offended that they left the forum...I wonder that they contined to read a thread that so hurt them... I am unsure why a person would do that. I can see reading a post by someone you maybe thought you knew and seeing them make statements that are hurtful...I can see how that would upset you and maybe make you want to stay away for a while... but why wouldn't you PM that person and just tell them?
I think there is a need for tolerance...but people cannot express tolerance and support for differing opinions if those opinions cannot be expressed. I am not crazy abot some of the political threads or others that end up in shouting matches, but when things degrade to that point, I do not read the thread.
I think for a community of so many diverse people to work, we must be willing to police ourselves without creating a 'nanny state'. We must learn self control as we continue to learn about each other. If we maintain good manners while voicing our opinions and show respect for each other we should be able to continue to grow as a community... there's a lot to be said for "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"... regardless of your religious beliefs!
So how about that Rodinal!!!
Seconded or is that thirded!
Originally Posted by johnnywalker
It's interesting that on the very day Aggie suggests the above, there's a purely photographic thread that Grace Cox authored that could be considered offensive, arrogant and provocative. But, in my opinion at least, it isn't! It's a vehemently held opinion. It may offend, but it's just her view which which others disagree. Were someone to decide to leave because their chosen photographic subject and/or style was belittled, it would seem silly.
As much as I appreciate your intentions, Aggie, I completely disagree that, in the interests of community, anything at all must be off limits. If someone writes something offensive, then the collective disapproval of the community should, as it does in real life, or at least used to, be adequate to deal with the offending member. I don't like even the idea of the 'ignore' list, but I certainly do like the idea of ignoring the offensive.
Real communities are beautiful, and ugly, well scrubbed and grubby, each in their turn. What makes them work isn't what they're not allowed to be, but what they have in common, including concerned regard for each other. I would much prefer to see us model the best behavior we can rather than be told where we cannot go. There will always be those who choose their own disruptive path, but it shouldn't phase the rest if there really is a community at the heart of things in the first place. Opprobrium works! Censorship doesn't!
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Fess up Aggie, who left? You made a statement based on something you put forth as fact. Lets get to the bottom of this and review the situation as it unravelled.
Maybe there are specific lessons to be learned from these incidence.
Sean left, are you happy!
No I need Sean to give me a "ignore list for my ignore list" so I can ignore Jorge before he gets one to ignore me
Originally Posted by bmac
Someone left? Because of that theo/politic thread? But there was nothing offensive in that? Was there? :o A few differing viewpoints perhaps but nothing much else.
I love photography, I have done for thirty years, but I would be hard pushed to chat all the time about nothing but photography.
The thing is, people are people, and sooner or later people will discuss whatever they feel like discussing. In the lounge that is fair enough.
Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh.
I recalled this post by Michael Mutmansky almost a year ago when several members who have voiced there opinions on this thread were involved in an altercation. I find it interesting how things come back around. By the way, I did and continue to support what Michael said at that time.
Donald L. Miller
02-22-2004, 12:58 PM
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: State College, PA
Shooter: ULarge Format
I have been thinking about some of the recent events that APUG has suffered through, and I started to wonder what could be done to reduce some of the conflicts that arise, and also help build a real community.
To that end, I have one proposal that I think should be taken into serious consideration. Strongly encourage each member to become a public member of the forum.
By this I mean that the majority of the people in the registration list do not have any information about themselves, and at least half do not use any form of identification that is 'real'. This permits people to hide behind a level of anonymity that is not really present in any other aspect of their lives.
While every person in the world has a name that they go by in their local community and for the sake of governmental purposes, I don't see that there is much reason to not continue to use this given name as part of an online identity. I use my full name, and I also feel that I have nothing to hide, and am not ashamed by any of the postings I have made on this forum, or on any other, as I use my full name on every forum I am involved in.
I understand that some people may be concerned about stalkers or other issues, so I can understand that full names may not be for everyone. However, look through the member list and you will find that there are a number of people who have a similar approach to mine, and I think that APUG is better for it.
Also, providing a bit more information about the member's location and other information is very useful in discussions. It is too easy to forget that a member may be on the other side of the world, and a recommendation to 'get it from B&H' or whatever is useless to many people.
One thing that defines a 'community' in my mind is that the members have a somewhat similar purpose, and have a somewhat similar background or understanding. Without these two items, a true community cannot be established. The interest in analogue photography is the common purpose, but there is a significant lack of common background or understanding within APUG.
This is made worse by the fact that traditional communities were defined by the common experiences of a close geographical organization, and often social standing, ethnicity, wealth, and politics among others. APUG is not limited in any of these manners, and so it must overcome the lack of common thread among its members, and find ways to build this understanding that creates a community.
The interest in analogue photography cannot be both the purpose and the background, because there are too many other facets in people's lives (like ego or politics, for example) that will result in the failure of a community to develop. Members that are mostly anonymous are doing nothing to develop the common background, and will not truly be a part of a 'community'.
This, I think is the greatest challenge, and the greatest failing of most internet-based groups, and is also part of the reason that horrific flame wars can break out. Anyone who has experienced some of the wars on Photo.net in the past knows what I mean. Once one begins, even if it is based on a legitimate debate between members, trolls or other anonymous members jump into the fray, and the whole place spirals out of control.
Whether this becomes a policy of APUG or not is something for Sean and other to debate away over. However, I encourage every member to become a more public participant. Put more information in your background page, use your 'real' name for posts, and develop an online persona that mirrors your identity as a member of the community that you live in the physical world.