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  1. #21
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    I seem to be one of the fortunates insomuch that I belong to, not one but two clubs where I enjoy my membership. One is competitive, whilst the other is not. Which is best? Well that depends if I am winning the competitions, or not! I will admit that participating in club competitions is beginning to pall, in part for the reasons given by others, however, before you complain too loudly about the club judging standard, try doing a stint up front yourself. Itís none too easy finding something meaningful, pertinent, and importantly, kind to say about a picture that you donít like, especially if you have already viewed 39 others; I know, Iíve tried! To repeat a truism, if you canít take the criticism, donít but your pictures in the firing line. Clubs can be a good source of information, and encouragement, if yours doesnít provide that for you, then leave, and find one that does. It is all too easy to hide your work from others, and delude yourself that it is top quality, to you it may be, to others, who knows.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  2. #22
    sparx's Avatar
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    Dave, i'm happy to take constructive criticism. It's small-minded, jealous, spiteful criticism from people who don't enter the competition themselves that gets up my nose. I did have people coming up to me saying they really like the gravestone shot and gave it 8 or 9. The ones who marked it down so much did so, not because of any genuine critical concerns but because they didn't like it.
    As I said earlier, even if I don't like a picture I will still mark it on its technical merits at least and I would want others to do the same. There are so many tastes out there that to write something off and then be derogatory about it because it doesn't suit yours is just a stupid way to run a successful club.
    [size=1]the all new darkplanet photoblog[/size][size=1]
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  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=rogueish]You know my night class instructor! :o We had to shoot a entire roll using the "butterfly" lighting. QUOTE]

    Back in my tolerant years, I attended a meeting that had a PRO portrait photographer lecture. He said that all professional were using the C&S method of posing. The "C" was a single curve, while the S was a double.
    "You can 'C' or 'S' a female client. But you can only 'C' a male client. You must never 'S' a male customer" I thought to myself, they have the exact same rule in the porn industry.
    Another time they decided to expand their competition. So they set up a committee to fashion rule for judging B&W print entries.
    The president went for a workshop with Elliot Porter. I swear if I had heard
    "synergistery" one more time during critique- I would've thrown up on his shoes!


    "But I'm feeling much better now"
    "Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect."

  4. #24
    joeyk49's Avatar
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    I can't find a camera club in my stretch of New Jersey. After reading this thread, I don't know if that's good or bad...

    I always thought that clubs were intended for members to share photos, experiences, techniques and occasionally, resources. Healthy dosages of constructive criticism help each other to make better photographs.

    It's one of the main reasons that I enjoy this site...

  5. #25

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    Well... I have never been associated with a "photo" club of any sorts. I tend to not be competitive, and clubs in general tend to rub me the wrong way. I WOULD like to find a small group of people who would enjoy sharing prints over coffee or tea, trading thoughts and such WITHOUT criticism unless constructive. I often overlook items that are glaringly obvious when pointed out. Being an engineer I am not too artsy, but even old dogs can be taught new tricks (woof). So, any suggestions for finding a few photo souls in the middle of the country? I considered an ad in the paper, but who knows what wierdos would fall from the rafters using a shotgun approach like that?

  6. #26
    garryl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyk49
    I always thought that clubs were intended for members to share photos, experiences, techniques and occasionally, resources. Healthy dosages of constructive criticism help each other to make better photographs.

    It's one of the main reasons that I enjoy this site...
    Really, I once did belong to a club like that, then the "new guard" took over
    and it was slide this and slide that; my lense is faster than yours; but PSA say we should do it this way; I just got 100 point.
    The old clubs (pre-1960's) seem to be , from articles I've read, to have been more "group doers" . They'd get together to do group project. Many donating
    equipment and labor and expertise to accomplish a group goal.

    I really think that the internet is the camera club of today.
    "Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect."

  7. #27
    arigram's Avatar
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    I do have a group of people interested in photography that we casually get together and share prints, information, or go shooting. What happens within clubs is there is usually a hierarchy that includes "presidents", "pros" who look down upon "amateurs", "old members" that disrespect "new members", the "comformist majority" that oppresses and outcasts the "revolutionaries". Nowdays there is the "digitals" vs the "analogs" and so and so forth. There are tiltles, awards, money involved, competitions, exhibitions, etc. Too much stress, too much pressure, too much competition and little creativity invoved. The majority with the guidance of the President and the Party strangles any creativity and pressure it inside a tight box of rules and cliche aesthetics. A friend of mine shocked the club because she included TWO women in one shot!
    Soon all art movements and groups take the way of the Communistic Party and become stalinistic and tyrannical, take the Surrealists for example.
    Artists should be around other artists to influence and support each other but in a free, open and casual manner, not imprisonned inside a small, dark cell.
    The good thing about online "clubs" such as APUG is that even though the interraction between members is very limited and distant, atleast has the flip side of letting the people a lot more free.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
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    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  8. #28
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Miller
    It is all too easy to hide your work from others, and delude yourself that it is top quality, to you it may be, to others, who knows.
    I'm really giving this last proposition a LOT of thought.

    I know that this is one of the raisons d'etre cited by the Camera Club judges ... and others ... that the Neophyte simply does not know what is good ... and there is a implication that the Judges do - and that the delusional one must be brought into line.

    I've been trying to recall *one* instance of any photographer I thought was delusional (other than unusually so - we all are to an extent) and genuinely believed - or claimed - that his/her work was top quality when it wasn't.

    For a moment I'll put aside the difficulty of determining what is "top quality work" and concentrate on the "claiming". Two "classes" (stop the teeth gritting everyone - just a figure of speech) do not claim that they produce "top quality work" .. not exclusively .. the "beginner" and the truly "significant photographers who have `made it' to the top".

    One has a difficult time convincing a neophyte that *any* of their work has merit - translation: is "good". I have seen breathtaking images nearly tossed into the circular files - "It's only MY work - so it can't be any good." At the other end of the spectrum, the most significant do not claim "top quality". I remember one conversation: "Oh, Mr. XXX, you are the greatest photographer in the world." His embarrassed reply, "Well, I take photographs. Every once in a while, I guess I get a good one. I hope someone LIKES my work."

    I can't recall anyone every saying "I do top quality work" ... or even some permutation of that.... and I've met a lot of strange people. Some will attempt to lead you there, but that is really from a sense of insecurity, or plain out swindling... rather than a delusional belief.

    Come to think of it ""I produce top quality work" is probably the last thing I'd say. I can't think of anything that would sound more stupid.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  9. #29
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    Artists should be around other artists to influence and support each other but in a free, open and casual manner, not imprisonned inside a small, dark cell.
    The good thing about online "clubs" such as APUG is that even though the interraction between members is very limited and distant, atleast has the flip side of letting the people a lot more free.
    Bravo!!! WELL said!!!
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  10. #30
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexp
    I considered an ad in the paper, but who knows what wierdos would fall from the rafters using a shotgun approach like that?
    That's exactly how the East Midland Monchrome Group was started, by placing a notice in a Photo mag; so why not give it a try - here would be a good place to start.
    For those in, or visiting England, our doors are open to all, and not a competition in sight.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


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