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  1. #21

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    It was decided and handed down by he on high from down under that these types of manipulations are beyond what is acceptable. While it might be a good idea to play with a tough negative, in PS, first, don't post those playings. This is an analog site. If you burn and dodge via a computer you are digitally manipulating. If you could have done it in a dark room then do it and post the print. This was Sean's rule and it is his site.

    Once again the lines are bluring and we need a clear definition of what is and is not analog as per the site owners definition because his is the only one that matters. This should be posted clearly for everyone to see.
    Last edited by mark; 11-08-2004 at 02:59 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  2. #22
    Flotsam's Avatar
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    From the APUG FAQ addressing the oximoron of using a digital forum to bring analog photographers together:

    [COLOR=Blue]"We understand if any images do exist on this site they will be "digital" representations of analog work."[/COLOR]
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Les McLean
    I think this is an excellent method of working on an image to check out interpretation, it saves time and materials and clearly is less expensive than using up photographic paper.
    This is true Les, but OTOH the manipulations done in the computer might not be what is possible or even needed as done in a DR.

    Also, if the only purpose is to "visualize" interpretation and manipulation, why not wait until the print is done instead of presenting the computer version?

    In my case I would love to be able to scan my negatives, play with them a little and see what changes could be useful, but I would never present the changes done in the computer, I would upload only the image from the final print.

    I think this is most people's objection, the fact that people uploading PS manipulated images have not even tried to do the "projected" manipulations in the darkroom, they have just gone ahead and presented them as if they were real prints, without knowing if the results would be similar when attempted in the DR.

    Photo.net, usefilm, photosig, etc. Are sites where they allow PS manipulated images that are not required to be printed. I think those people desaturating their negatives and manipulating them in PS should present these images in those sites and restrict themselves to post here the final printed image.

    One new member got all upset with me and tried to start a flame war just because I chose not to comment on those images that are not real prints, his argument was that I was putting those people down, well IMO it shows a greater lack of respect to come to this site and post PS manipulated images knowing very well this is an analog site. The only one available and one that most of the membership would like to keep this way.

  4. #24
    Joe Lipka's Avatar
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    I rarely comment on such threads, because I do not post in the galleries. I do believe that if an image is to be posted in an APUG gallery, it should be on a paper substrate and been submerged in many chemical baths before it is scanned. (OK, wash and dry before scanning.)

    Negative to scanner to an APUG gallery with substantial manipulation in Photoshop is just not in the spirit of this site.
    Two New Projects! Light on China - 07/13/2014

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    250+ posts and still blogging! "Postcards from the Creative Journey"

    http://blog.joelipkaphoto.com/

  5. #25
    Sean's Avatar
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    Well, I guess we have a few options.

    We can come up with a gallery statement that is visible on the upload page. Something along the lines of "In the spirit of traditional photography we ask.."

    We can create additional galleries. Covert Standard, Critique, Technical, and experimental to: Standard Print Scans, Critique Print Scans, Technical Prints Scans, Experimental Print Scans AND add a new gallery called "Negative Scans".

    Also open to additional suggestions..

  6. #26

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    A slippery slope indeed.

    joe

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    Well, I guess we have a few options.

    We can come up with a gallery statement that is visible on the upload page. Something along the lines of "In the spirit of traditional photography we ask.."

    We can create additional galleries. Covert Standard, Critique, Technical, and experimental to: Standard Print Scans, Critique Print Scans, Technical Prints Scans, Experimental Print Scans AND add a new gallery called "Negative Scans".

    Also open to additional suggestions..
    That sounds really complicated.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  8. #28

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    If we're going along those lines would it be better to have just one "grey gallery" like we have the grey forum?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    Well, I guess we have a few options.

    We can come up with a gallery statement that is visible on the upload page. Something along the lines of "In the spirit of traditional photography we ask.."
    This first solution seems relatively simple, and may be all that's needed.

  10. #30
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    Jorge, I agree with all you say except the use of PS to check out interpretation. When I made my post agreeing with Joe's original comment I was not advocating that we accept such prints in the gallery. Your comments re PS images in the gallery that have not been printed traditionally is also fair, but what about those images that have been printed but are too big to scan being manipulated in PS from the negative to match the finished print. Is that allowable?

    I ask this question because almost every image that I had in the gallery has been treated this way simply because I did not have the time to make smaller prints to scan. The information about the print that I posted was based on the large print that I had already made. I also have to say that the finished negative scan was faithful to the final print.

    Bottom line Jorge is that I think we are both singing from the same Hymn sheet.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

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