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  1. #41
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    maybe yes because if made right, and archival black/white print or toned or pt/pd or salt or ... will last a long time
    maybe no because a pigment print made with the right ... will last a long time

    maybe no because the general public couldn't really care less .. before they got cellphone snappies they got p/s - mini lab snappies
    Most people understand a quality print from something much less so.

    That is how National Geographic is still around.

    Most people just do not have the personal time to invest in producing their own higher quality images.The care about good enough and are far more observant of the image content than the technicalities.

    The diverging dynamic between the one-of-a-kind custom, hand made print and the over-production of digital snaps is already creating a marketable nostalgic. The closest analogy I can think of is the slow food movement and a renewed interest ni short production run, hand bound or technically outstanding print books.

  2. #42
    keithwms's Avatar
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    I don't know about this whole archival fixation. Some of the best things we can experience are finished in a few minutes
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  3. #43

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    i think for the most part national geo is still around because it is an institution
    not because of the "quality" it might embody ...
    i don't think many people really care about quality these days ..
    things are "good enough" unless you can afford something hand made,
    or to spend 200$ on a meal that takes 7 hours to prepare and serve
    or anything else of "quality"
    we live in an age where everything is a veneer of quality, a shadow ... whether it is the shiny-metalic looking stuff
    that is electroplated on the plastic toilet paper holder - to make it look "rich" ( but for 3.99$ )
    or a point and shoot snapshot imported into someones smartphone and then "app'd" to look
    like a vintage sepia toned, deckle edged print.
    maybe there is a segment of society that still cares, just like we are here and still care
    but the outside in the real world ... you will find fewer people paying 500 or 2000$ for a hand crafted set of prints
    of their child made with a film camera and hand printed on paper &c &C , and more people going to the baby-mart
    and sitting for 45seconds, and 3mins later quality dye sub prints appear, all for 8$/sheet ...

    8$ doesn't even cover film or paper, never mind the time it takes to alchemize a print ...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    I don't know about this whole archival fixation. Some of the best things we can experience are finished in a few minutes
    And for some a few seconds.

    But obviously you've never had an archival orgasm.

    It's from sex with a really ugly partner and you keep reliving it until you die. You can't get it out of your head.

    What was I thinking...what was I thinking...what was I thinking....
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  5. #45
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    Ok now I am confused

    Recently threads have been closed because of digital discussion, this thread seems to still be active, where some are suggesting traditional prints are more precious , special than digital workflow prints?

    Is it ok now to discuss the merits of images created with a digital element?? Or is it only to be continued with how precious our enlarger prints are??
    Some of the best artists, whose prints I have seen are not being brought forward due to recent moderator comments or decisions.
    I am not a Zeolot(sp) for the dark side, I just think a balanced discussion should be allowed.

    I find it ironic that I just loaded two images on another thread as an example how I mask my negative carrier, which was done by IPhone, but I cannot talk about lets say Sandy Kings or Kerik or ..........others work because they happen to incorporate inkjet negs... I do not feel comfortable talking about my own darkroom any more because of this apparent lack of balance.

    Is it just me??? are others not offended by this? I am getting really tired of some here stating how ffllfk precious their hand made prints are.. I suspect most of them are shite>

  6. #46
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    In answering the OP question " has digital prints made older process prints special" the answer is of course, sometimes.

    Some people appreciate the hand made one off quality of darkroom prints, but obviously most people don't and most don't even know what silver halide, platinum etc even means.

    Some "collectors" buy not by love of subject matter or process but instead by author.

    Is an Ansel Adams printed by someone else, better than one printed with an inkjet?

    Anyways, the bottom line in my opinion is still not the process, but the subject.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  7. #47
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    But obviously you've never had an archival orgasm.

    It's from sex with a really ugly partner and you keep reliving it until you die. You can't get it out of your head.

    What was I thinking...what was I thinking...what was I thinking....
    LOL

    Sex?! Naughty lad, I was referring to the blossoming of a flower, the taste of a tart cherry... okay I meant sex

    But seriously: there is financial worth in owning / investing in something will be there for a long time. E.g. the bricks of your house. But suppose you make a really glorious albumen print that will start to yellow in a few years. Would you care? Suppose you could make a leaf print by taking the substances from a leaf in the fall, and watch it turn colour just like normal leaves do... would it be worth less because it changes? Or would it in fact be worth more because it's something that isn't constant and static... instead it shows its age.

    I can think of plenty of really beautiful photographic creations that aren't archival to the standards of toned silver or platinum prints.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  8. #48
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    I don't know about this whole archival fixation. Some of the best things we can experience are finished in a few minutes
    Genetic archives!

    Nice.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Is it just me???
    Yes, it's just you!
    Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

  10. #50
    ROL
    ROL is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Ok now I am confused
    Just go lie down, dad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Recently threads have been closed because of digital discussion, this thread seems to still be active, where some are suggesting traditional prints are more precious , special than digital workflow prints?
    ...but have a stiff one first (whatever that means to you).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Is it ok now to discuss the merits of images created with a digital element?? Or is it only to be continued with how precious our enlarger prints are??
    Some of the best artists, whose prints I have seen are not being brought forward due to recent moderator comments or decisions.
    I am not a Zeolot(sp) for the dark side, I just think a balanced discussion should be allowed.
    That line was blurred a long time ago. I believe, at one time, that was supposed to be the domain of HybridPhoto.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I find it ironic that I just loaded two images on another thread as an example how I mask my negative carrier, which was done by IPhone, but I cannot talk about lets say Sandy Kings or Kerik or ..........others work because they happen to incorporate inkjet negs... I do not feel comfortable talking about my own darkroom any more because of this apparent lack of balance.
    I think of APUG as a place to help people with arcane classical processes. I just can't get worked up over what is and what isn't. It was only now that I realized this was an "Ethics and Philosophy" thread, which I normally steer clear of, unless I can somehow make a joke of it (check and mate).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Is it just me??? are others not offended by this? I am getting really tired of some here stating how ffllfk precious their hand made prints are..
    (ffllfk?)

    Offended by people I don't know, working part time out of their bathrooms, whose latest gear acquisition is more important than their image making, who may only relate to photography through their experience with digital image making, professing unsubstantiated experience and competence?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I suspect most of them are shite
    I know mine are. I only keep them on my walls because I have to live with my wife's bad taste in "art".


    It's the internet Bob. It's all good (...and all bad). I'm out – I'd rather go make another shitey print.

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