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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    If you believe that every good, photographicable scene is guaranteed to fit exactly into the aspect ratio of your camera, than you have no excuse for cropping.

    And if you believe that it is always possible to stand in the location that is ideally suited for making a full frame photo of every good, photographicable scene, than you have no excuse for cropping.
    ....
    ^^^^ this

    Why framing in camera is sacrosanct is beyond me. My eyes do not see 2:3 or 4:5 or what have you. If you can compose perfectly in camera, great, but if a slight or major crop is necessary, have at it.

    and yes, I shoot rf as well and accurate framing is a joke but it gets me close

  2. #12

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    Photographs are made twice -- once in the camera, then in the darkroom (or lightroom). If you push the non-cropping philosophy, the only acceptable image is a contact print.

  3. #13

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    i sometimes crop contact prints ...

    i think it is the photographer's prerogative to do whatever he or she wants
    cropping in-camera, under the enlarger, with the mat, thumb, or computer et al.

    a lot of people shoot "full frame" because they like to ... i see nothing wrong with that ..
    ask me how ..

  4. #14
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I think Sinsabaugh's prints were cropped contact prints.

    Meaning--they were certainly contact prints, but I don't know if he printed and then cut the print or if he cut the negative.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  5. #15
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    When framing with a rangefinder, perhaps you see something below the brightline finders you wish to exclude, in preference to excluding part of the image at the top.
    One thing to keep in mind, if you have parallax-correcting brightlines.

    The subject at infinity does not move with parallax.

    To critically analyze composition that includes a mix of near and far with a rangefinder... For the far subject matter you have to consider where the brightlines were when you are focused at infinity.

    I think you thought you had it out of the frame when you shot.

  6. #16
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    The sancrosanct rule against cropping is the instrumentalization of a particular theoretical positioning: if making a photograph involves framing and selecting in a manner representative or expressive of one's vision, then the value of a photograph should be proportional to the value of the visualization effort done at the moment of exposure.

    In other words, if you believe that the original act of seeing is of paramount importance in the final result, then you will maximize the means to demonstrate your talent, i.e. by not cropping.

    This kind of aesthetic principle aims at being a generalizable one, and therein lies the problem for me. While I agree that a good eye needs training, and that trying to match the camera's point of view with one's eye (by shooting full-frame) is a great exercise in compositional rigour, I don't think that's the royal way to photographic quality. Far from it. By doing so, you are cultivating only one kind of seeing.

    My habit is to try to see as best as I can when I shoot, but whatever needs adjusting in the darkroom gets done. I have a tendency to prefer accomplishing a full-frame picture when I shoot 6x6 square rather than 24x36 rectangle. I'm a lazy rectangular: most of the time images from my 24x36 negs will end up being whatever fits nicely into a 8x10 or a 11x14 paper. Obviously, there are also pictures that I always print full-frame, since that's how I like them best anyway. In other words, my rationale for cropping or not cropping is often one of convenience and process.

    But I urge anyone to disregard the teaching of "Masters" (tm) who want to tell you what "Good" (tm) photography is all about. HCB is not God, and will never be. But those people running workshop sometimes behave as if they are...
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  7. #17
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    . . . My rule of thumb? Get the most out of what you have in the camera, and then crop (where required) later.
    Yes, indeed. Cropping is just another of the many tools, like developing and printing, that many photographers use. Decades ago, when most of my photography was 35mm Kodachrome intended for projection, those tools were unavailable. Now, free from such constrictions, photography is more satisfying. Uncropped photos are fine for the casual snapshooter and for a few good photographers more concerned with taking a photograph than with producing the best possible image.

  8. #18
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong guys, as I am not saying that I think not to crop is sacrosanct and indeed my gallery post “Finders, keepers” is obviously cropped from the original 3:2 aspect ratio. However, I sometimes think that leaving in the odd dross at the edges, reminds us of the real way we see, with peripheral vision.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  9. #19
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Don't get me wrong guys, as I am not saying that I think not to crop is sacrosanct and indeed my gallery post “Finders, keepers” is obviously cropped from the original 3:2 aspect ratio. However, I sometimes think that leaving in the odd dross at the edges, reminds us of the real way we see, with peripheral vision.
    Clive,

    Do you allude to a theory that if you crop out what you felt you needed to crop out when exposing the film, we leave out the idea of why we thought it should be cropped?

    Are you interested in showing what made the frame work, or are you interested in showing how your mind came up with the idea of what works?
    I think it should be about showing a finished work, which isn't about an idea, but the result of the idea ( or lightbulb moment, or emotional inclination, or just a reaction).
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Clive,

    Do you allude to a theory that if you crop out what you felt you needed to crop out when exposing the film, we leave out the idea of why we thought it should be cropped?

    Are you interested in showing what made the frame work, or are you interested in showing how your mind came up with the idea of what works?
    I think it should be about showing a finished work, which isn't about an idea, but the result of the idea ( or lightbulb moment, or emotional inclination, or just a reaction).
    I'm not sure I quite follow you Thomas, but I don't think I'm trying to show an idea, or the result of an idea, but the image within that frame.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

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