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  1. #31
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    And this has nothing to do with analog or digital.
    Correct, except that digital permits far more shots. If taking lots more shots produces better images, as some seem to think, would that not also imply that anyone working on large format can’t compete with a small format user (except on factors relating to a larger format).

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  2. #32
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    The Canadian photographer Sherman Hines who did a few books back in the 80s of scenic parts of Canada once discussed his philosophy. He said he could never work like Ansel Adams, parked for hours/days waiting for the perfect shot.
    I can't either. There are constraints on my time in the mountains that force me to take what I can get when I am lucky enough to be there and at the time of day that I happen upon a scene.

    In the mountains I am constrained by the weight, so with a hundred sheets to last me a week, I have to pace myself. I am willing to take the lesser quality in return for being able to take anything at all.

  3. #33
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    I used to be a pianist. It would be utterly ridiculous to claim that true artists in music never have to practice, and that practice time is only for hacks that will never get anywhere. It is quite the opposite. The same is true for photography. Practice makes you better. I understand what you are trying to argue in regards to digital and endless clicking away but not getting anywhere, but the same can be said for film. However, the is a difference between mindless picture taking, and practicing an art/craft for refinement.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  4. #34
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Davis View Post
    I used to be a pianist. It would be utterly ridiculous to claim that true artists in music never have to practice, and that practice time is only for hacks that will never get anywhere. It is quite the opposite. The same is true for photography. Practice makes you better. I understand what you are trying to argue in regards to digital and endless clicking away but not getting anywhere, but the same can be said for film. However, the is a difference between mindless picture taking, and practicing an art/craft for refinement.
    I am not saying that you don't have to practice, but after much practice multiple shots may be limited to just a few and a scatter gun technique is not required.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    ...if this is true [taking lots of photos, eg shoot, edit, shoot], then surely digital photography would have thrown up a plethora of brilliant photographers, which to-date it has not.
    Teaching people how to see can be done through multiple techniques, I am sure (could be wrong) the same professor would also advocate to bulk load 10 frames and choose them well. I think your premise is so mutually exclusive thinking; your premise with easy access to shooting and reviewing, photographers should be better, and since we have no more brilliant photographers today than before, taking too many photos is in fact a detriment. Sorry Clive I dont agree, here is why, I bet when latex paints came on the market, it probably provided greater access to fine art painting, but were there more great painters after latex proportional to the growth of population and those studying fine art? I bet not. Sure it was prob easier to paint without cleaning the brushes in turpentine and all the slow aspects of oil painting that prior artists had to endure. See what I mean? Your A+B should equal C approach is too presumptive. There might have been more fine art painters using latex but that doest mean that there was a statistically significant number of great fine art painters than before as compared to other arts (music, dance, photography, etc). I think what we see is with access comes a lot of mediocrity, but that doesn't mean there are less great ones.

    Personally I do bulk load 10 or so frames but I wouldn't judge my friend if he/she fired off 36 frames in 10 seconds. In my book, the more photography folks do the better, they are seeing, reguardless method of capture and intent. I say use it as an opportunity to motivate yourself, not to be saddened that there is such bad form out there...
    Last edited by zsas; 05-19-2012 at 03:13 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Andy

  6. #36
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Correct, except that digital permits far more shots. If taking lots more shots produces better images, as some seem to think, would that not also imply that anyone working on large format can’t compete with a small format user (except on factors relating to a larger format).
    You need to define "taking more shots".

    Are you referring to machine gunning or are you referring to getting yourself in position to take more pictures.

    Machine gunning is a sports, fashion, photojournalist staple as I mentioned before. Often necessary to nail that thousands of a second magic that you couldn't get with one shot. And since you can, you do. You'd be an idiot to only take a few when you might miss something by a millisecond.

    Machine gunning as a portrait or scenic photographer, is a lacking in knowledge and technique.

    Same motion, different motivation.

    Still has nothing to do with digital vs analog, because as I said motor drives have been around since the 70s.

    The only difference now is that there are more people machine gunning because more cameras have motordrives and those people happen to be shooting digital. BUT there are still great photographers now, a lot more and a lot better than what you're nostalgic for.

    When I photograph children. I overshoot. Did with film and I do with digital. Why, because I'm looking for the magic. Not the great, but the magic. The magic is a tricky thing and sometimes it takes time and a connection that can't be rushed. Sometimes it won't come. Sometimes it comes very late. Sometimes it comes when they get tired. The magic has it's own schedule. It doesn't come just with competence, but also with perseverance.


    Is someone a better movie director because he can shoot a scene with 2 takes instead of 10. If you think that they you are dismissing a lot of incredible directors.
    Last edited by blansky; 05-19-2012 at 03:46 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  7. #37
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    Machine gunning as a portrait or scenic photographer, is a lacking in knowledge and technique.
    As in any type of photography.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  8. #38
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    As in any type of photography.
    That sounds like an academic speaking and not a working photographer.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  9. #39
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    Teaching people how to see can be done through multiple techniques, I am sure (could be wrong) the same professor would also advocate to bulk load 10 frames and choose them well. I think your premise is so mutually exclusive thinking; your premise with easy access to shooting and reviewing, photographers should be better, and since we have no more brilliant photographers today than before, taking too many photos is in fact a detriment. Sorry Clive I dont agree, here is why, I bet when latex paints came on the market, it probably provided greater access to fine art painting, but were there more great painters after latex proportional to the growth of population and those studying fine art? I bet not. Sure it was prob easier to paint without cleaning the brushes in turpentine and all the slow aspects of oil painting that prior artists had to endure. See what I mean? Your A+B should equal C approach is too presumptive. There might have been more fine art painters using latex but that doest mean that there was a statistically significant number of great fine art painters than before as compared to other arts (music, dance, photography, etc). I think what we see is with access comes a lot of mediocrity, but that doesn't mean there are less great ones.

    Personally I do bulk load 10 or so frames but I wouldn't judge my friend if he/she fired off 36 frames in 10 seconds. In my book, the more photography folks do the better, they are seeing, reguardless method of capture and intent. I say use it as an opportunity to motivate yourself, not to be saddened that there is such bad form out there...
    Zsas, I don't quite understand what you are saying, as you seem to be in agreement with what I am trying to say.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  10. #40
    CPorter's Avatar
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    If I could make 100 4x5 negatives in a day's outing, I certainly would------then I would hope for a handful to be proud of, what's wrong with that?

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