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  1. #51

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    Without film, photography would be limited to family snaps and shots for ebay. The darkroom is a crucial part of creative photography and cannot be replaced by the computer - a business machine as far as I'm concerned. I'd replace photography with drawing.
    Steve.

  2. #52

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    I have used digital for over 20 years and film going on 40, while I see a place for both and enjoy both mediums equally, I do not enjoy the digital attitude towards film, which would get far far worse if film was totally gone. That being said, I would sell everything, get out of the craft and the business and go and get a science degree and do something entirely different for the rest of my life....if film were to go completely, which it won't...
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  3. #53
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    So, if I use my DSLR to produce an image of my kids that I put on Facebook, it's a photograph, because it's "commercial", and it's the artifact that counts. But if I use the same process to produce an image that is sold in an art gallery, it's not a photograph, because it's "art", and it's the process that counts? Seriously?

    Whoever labeled Man Ray's photograms "cameraless photography" must not have gotten the memo.
    No, it's an "image."

    I added the bit about commercial on the spur of the moment.

    Hybrid throws a monkey wrench and makes something neither fish nor fowl, neither electronic image or photograph I suppose.

    I'd just prefer clearer terms. I don't have it all worked out, but I know that digital isn't really what I think of when I think of "photography" though, to be fair, "photography" means something like "painting with light" and in that case it does apply.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Whoever labeled Man Ray's photograms "cameraless photography" must not have gotten the memo.
    what do you mean by this ?
    man ray never made photograms, maholy-nagy did ... man ray made rayographs ..

    are you suggesting his ( or maholy nagy's ) photographic images shouldn't be called cameraless photographs, or photographs?
    Last edited by jnanian; 06-11-2012 at 08:04 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #55
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    Are you kidding me, Original Poster?
    If both Kodak and Fuji stopped making photographic film, there would be a lot of money for companies like Ilford, Efke, etc. to produce film at higher prices.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    what do you mean by this ?
    man ray never made photograms, maholy-nagy did ... man ray made rayographs ..
    And I guess Ansel made "Adamsographs"?

    http://www.iphf.org/Hall_Of_Fame/Ind...n_Ray_Bio.html

    Also in 1921, man Ray moved to Paris and made the first of what he called “Rayographs.” Also known as photograms, these images were produced by placing objects directly onto photographic paper and then exposing them to light.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    are you suggesting his ( or maholy nagy's ) photographic images shouldn't be called cameraless photographs, or photographs?
    Of course not; please read the post I responded to (and disagreed with), which argued that artistic digital images shouldn't be called photographs because they don't use the original photographic process (camera, film, darkroom). My point is that you can't exclude one without also excluding the other. I exclude neither.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    And I guess Ansel made "Adamsographs"?

    http://www.iphf.org/Hall_Of_Fame/Ind...n_Ray_Bio.html

    Also in 1921, man Ray moved to Paris and made the first of what he called “Rayographs.” Also known as photograms, these images were produced by placing objects directly onto photographic paper and then exposing them to light.



    Of course not; please read the post I responded to (and disagreed with), which argued that artistic digital images shouldn't be called photographs because they don't use the original photographic process (camera, film, darkroom). My point is that you can't exclude one without also excluding the other. I exclude neither.
    thanks for the reference ...
    manray never called his images photograms but now, everyone else seems to ....

    if adams actually called his work adamsographs, then yes, you should call them the same way he referred to them.
    as you just posted, manray actually called his cameraless work rayographs, maholy nagy called his own cameraless work photograms, and nowadays ....
    maybe because maholy nagy's images were more widely known, and he taught at art schools or
    because of his connection with water gropius or the big names in art and art history ... his terminology stuck.

    i did see your post and i do agree with most of what you said
    ... no, you can't exclude any of it ( not lumi paints, or suntan prints, or long exposed chemicalfree images either)

  8. #58

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    I'd go to plates for the view cameras. I'll be tinkering with collodion soon anyway.

  9. #59

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    I'd be done. I hate the digital process. I've been making my living staring at a monitor and wrapping my fingers around a mouse for 30 years and rarely touch a computer during evenings or weekends. If film went I'd dig in the garden or go to the gym.

  10. #60
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    I spent 30 years with film, then because we travelled through airports a lot, and at that time, they were happily destroying my film, I switched to the electro-camera-of-the-month club.
    Phooey.
    About 4 months ago, I started collecting a good bunch of film gear again, joined APUG, and am planning a dark room. Sitting in front of a computer fiddling around with software probably is photography, but not for me. For me, it's 'image capture', which a lot of people are going to say is what film does, but maybe it's the very spirit of the process that separates them. For me, anyway.
    I kept my digital stuff for vacation snaps and eBay ads, which as far as I'm concerned is all it's good for.
    There is no connection to the process for me like there is when developing and printing film. It all just feels remote. You move your mouse, click it, and the electronic image on the monitor changes. Don't like it? Just click again, and again.....
    I think, having used both, (and this'll really get people going), photography is like music. You have to practice and learn and work hard to create a good silver print, and you have to do the same to play the guitar well. It doesn't take much to put a CD in the player and turn it on, set the bass and treble, and away you go, which equates to digital.



 

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