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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Since we're already in a somewhat strange place with this...
    I probably should have mentioned Hido in the title.

  2. #12
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    I probably should have mentioned Hido in the title.
    I know Hido's work. Always thought his drowsy nudes owed a lot stylistically to Larry Sultan, especially his "Pictures from Home" series.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    I know Hido's work. Always thought his drowsy nudes owed a lot stylistically to Larry Sultan, especially his "Pictures from Home" series.
    I think they do yeah - Sultan was his mentor. But other than a concentration on suburbia, they are coming from different places - even on a superficial level. It's like comparing Adams to Weston.
    But having a vaguely similar style is a little different to copying concepts, series themes, and seeking out exactly the same subject matter. This person is intentionally getting inside Hido's head - aesthetics and concepts - as a means to produce work that has some depth. What I find troubling is that he's clearly trying to kid naive Flickr viewers into believing this is original work. If this work was displayed before the public, in print, I believe he'd run into problems. But... isn't it on public display on Flickr? More people might view the work there than any short run exhibition. This is what I'm trying to get at, I believe those images are walking an intellectual property tightrope.

  4. #14
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    I think they do yeah - Sultan was his mentor. But other than a concentration on suburbia, they are coming from different places - even on a superficial level. It's like comparing Adams to Weston.
    But having a vaguely similar style is a little different to copying concepts, series themes, and seeking out exactly the same subject matter. This person is intentionally getting inside Hido's head - aesthetics and concepts - as a means to produce work that has some depth. What I find troubling is that he's clearly trying to kid naive Flickr viewers into believing this is original work. If this work was displayed before the public, in print, I believe he'd run into problems. But... isn't it on public display on Flickr? More people might view the work there than any short run exhibition. This is what I'm trying to get at, I believe those images are walking an intellectual property tightrope.
    Why does this matter so much, anyway? If this guy's riffing on Hido, it won't be first time it's been done. Has Hido retained you to file suit?

    The link between Sultan and Hido is a bit more intimate--and obvious--than you're arguing, sorry.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Why does this matter so much, anyway? If this guy's riffing on Hido, it won't be first time it's been done. Has Hido retained you to file suit?

    The link between Sultan and Hido is a bit more intimate--and obvious--than you're arguing, sorry.
    It only matters in so much as intellectual property is something that can potentially effect all of us putting our work out there. It's a bigger problem for establishing artists of course, and it's a little scary to think that when concepts mark so much photography today, those who are developing ideas have to be extra brave when presenting their work online.

    We're not talking about a landscape photographer simply stealing another photographer's 'views' here, but something that can only be imitated with a clever psychological appropriation of a concept and personal vision - and the good fortune of seemingly living in the same place Hido made his work. I find it a little scary that anyone can have the capacity to do this. We all imitate to some extent of course, but we move past it after a few images. To maintain that imitation for three series worth of a photographers work, using the same tools and materials and hiring models that suit 'the look', I find, quite worrying.

    No need to apologise for your reading of the Sultan/Hido connection.

  6. #16
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    I'm not sure it's plagiarism, but it sure looks like the Flikr photographer is copying Hido's work pretty closely. As someone mentioned the Picasso quote about good artists are copying and great artists are stealing (and I think this quote may not be from Picasso but I digress); when a great artist steals he or she steals from far more than one source. If you only copy (or steal) one artist or photographer, your work will be simply be reductive, and that's what the Flikr work is, but steal from ten or twelve sources... well, now that's another story! Maybe this Flikr photographer will find some other influences and move on with a more unique voice or the work will just look like Hido wannabe's.

  7. #17
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    I think they do yeah - Sultan was his mentor. But other than a concentration on suburbia, they are coming from different places - even on a superficial level. It's like comparing Adams to Weston.
    But having a vaguely similar style is a little different to copying concepts, series themes, and seeking out exactly the same subject matter. This person is intentionally getting inside Hido's head - aesthetics and concepts - as a means to produce work that has some depth. What I find troubling is that he's clearly trying to kid naive Flickr viewers into believing this is original work. If this work was displayed before the public, in print, I believe he'd run into problems. But... isn't it on public display on Flickr? More people might view the work there than any short run exhibition. This is what I'm trying to get at, I believe those images are walking an intellectual property tightrope.
    And not only does this person live in the same area and seemingly shoot the same areas as Hido he used the same exact fog!
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
    Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

    My Flickr River of photographs
    http://flickriver.com/photos/rich815...r-interesting/

    My Photography Website
    http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    It only matters in so much as intellectual property is something that can potentially effect all of us putting our work out there. It's a bigger problem for establishing artists of course, and it's a little scary to think that when concepts mark so much photography today, those who are developing ideas have to be extra brave when presenting their work online.

    We're not talking about a landscape photographer simply stealing another photographer's 'views' here, but something that can only be imitated with a clever psychological appropriation of a concept and personal vision - and the good fortune of seemingly living in the same place Hido made his work. I find it a little scary that anyone can have the capacity to do this. We all imitate to some extent of course, but we move past it after a few images. To maintain that imitation for three series worth of a photographers work, using the same tools and materials and hiring models that suit 'the look', I find, quite worrying.

    No need to apologise for your reading of the Sultan/Hido connection.
    Honestly, I don't see where the problem is. Is is forbidden to take a picture where and the way Hido did? As long as the Flikr photographer does not present his work as Hido's... I only hope he will find his own way by himself.

  9. #19
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    It only matters in so much as intellectual property is something that can potentially effect all of us putting our work out there. It's a bigger problem for establishing artists of course, and it's a little scary to think that when concepts mark so much photography today, those who are developing ideas have to be extra brave when presenting their work online.

    We're not talking about a landscape photographer simply stealing another photographer's 'views' here, but something that can only be imitated with a clever psychological appropriation of a concept and personal vision - and the good fortune of seemingly living in the same place Hido made his work. I find it a little scary that anyone can have the capacity to do this. We all imitate to some extent of course, but we move past it after a few images. To maintain that imitation for three series worth of a photographers work, using the same tools and materials and hiring models that suit 'the look', I find, quite worrying.

    No need to apologise for your reading of the Sultan/Hido connection.
    No apology offered, just an admonition to see Hido's work relative to Sultan's and this dude's relative to Hido's. Who really cares about the nature or extent of the copying if it's costing Hido no sleep--which I suspect it isn't. The copycat's work isn't so much inspired by Hido as burdened by it. Don't make his obsessive hell yours. Walk on.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    No apology offered, just an admonition to see Hido's work relative to Sultan's and this dude's relative to Hido's.
    Thanks very much for your admonition, but I'm fairly comfortable with how I see these three photographers in relation to each other. This reminds me of those 'admonitions' on APUG that craft is everything and slapped wrists if you don't accept it - "you young whippersnappers!". Sounds more like totalitarianism. I guess I'm just too plain stubborn to accept your opinion verbatim - sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Don't make his obsessive hell yours. Walk on.
    Now this advice I'll gladly accept - thanks.

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