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  1. #51
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    thanks Bill... for that nice compliment you can send me a file and I will make you a Silver Digital Print.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    I feel different about large prints. Here I appreciate the modern approaches being developed by the likes of Bob Carnie.

  2. #52
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I have to disagree

    Name one Site that is more dedicated to printing than APUG and I will eat my hat.... I just want to discuss alt methods of making these prints, and unfortunately/ fortunately it means using some digital gear.
    Dpug has not taken off and can be days or weeks before a decent response to a post, here its next minute conversation.

    Seriously there are no other sites.. I keep hearing people say this here but to date no proof of this..



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevan View Post
    I guess there is a sort of reconciliation, if you drop some serious cash on a printer (there are no cheap options for printing digi negs here as far I can see, it is $1000 and upwards and still some pizza wheel marks and expensive ink sets). And then you fiddle with the knobs (virtual ones, that is). To me, I just can't see myself waking up smiling at the thought of "Gee, I want to print a digital neg today!". I like the process, with the chemistry and papers and the reality.

    But it is there and it is possible, if you have the cash and inclination. It is good for those who deem it good. I agree with Ken, no better or worse, just different ways. But I still think it is a good thing to keep APUG just APUG, there are a hundred sites that cater to digital and then there is DPUG if you have the urge to do something in-between.

  3. #53
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Moderators exist so that they can mark off-topic or delete remarks of the "it's easier in Photoshop" kind, whether in APUG or in APUG - Gray zone.
    The problem with that logic is that almost all hybrid work uses digital methods to replace analog methods that can do the same thing.

    For example it is easier to do alternative prints using 35mm film and hybrid/Photoshop methods than it is to carry a 16x20 camera to the field and deal with 16x20 film sheets. Hybrid/Photoshop methods are also easier than making internegs and and enlarging to 16x20 film sheets.

    Hybrid methods reduce the need for film, using a 35mm camera and hybrid methods instead of a 16x20 camera means using 1.5 square inches of film instead of 320.

    Hybrid methods reduce the need for big cameras, enlargers, dodge and burn wands, vignetters, chemicals, trays, darkrooms.....

    Is it APUGs job to reduce film demand? Reduce the need for big cameras? Reduce the need for enlargers, chemicals, and darkrooms?

    No.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #54
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Mark- to make my 30 x 40 contact negatives from digital files I use Rollie Ortho 25. 30 inch x 100 ft rolls. so that works out to be about 28 30 x40 film packs, each time I order a roll.

    I think this helps the Vendors bottom line and they do know me from APUG.




    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    The problem with that logic is that almost all hybrid work uses digital methods to replace analog methods that can do the same thing.

    For example it is easier to do alternative prints using 35mm film and hybrid/Photoshop methods than it is to carry a 16x20 camera to the field and deal with 16x20 film sheets. Hybrid/Photoshop methods are also easier than making internegs and and enlarging to 16x20 film sheets.

    Hybrid methods reduce the need for film, using a 35mm camera and hybrid methods instead of a 16x20 camera means using 1.5 square inches of film instead of 320.

    Hybrid methods reduce the need for big cameras, enlargers, dodge and burn wands, vignetters, chemicals, trays, darkrooms.....

    Is it APUGs job to reduce film demand? Reduce the need for big cameras? Reduce the need for enlargers, chemicals, and darkrooms?

    No.

  5. #55
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Hybrid methods reduce the need for [...] dodge and burn wands
    I've always made mine out of coat hanger wire and pieces of paper or cardboard. Does this mean I could make them for other people, and they would pay cash money for them? I'll be rich!
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  6. #56
    MaximusM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    The problem with that logic is that almost all hybrid work uses digital methods to replace analog methods that can do the same thing.

    For example it is easier to do alternative prints using 35mm film and hybrid/Photoshop methods than it is to carry a 16x20 camera to the field and deal with 16x20 film sheets. Hybrid/Photoshop methods are also easier than making internegs and and enlarging to 16x20 film sheets.

    Hybrid methods reduce the need for film, using a 35mm camera and hybrid methods instead of a 16x20 camera means using 1.5 square inches of film instead of 320.

    Hybrid methods reduce the need for big cameras, enlargers, dodge and burn wands, vignetters, chemicals, trays, darkrooms.....

    Is it APUGs job to reduce film demand? Reduce the need for big cameras? Reduce the need for enlargers, chemicals, and darkrooms?

    No.
    Well, I think I'd rather put my money on film's survival by selling more 35mm and MF format cameras and film than 16x20 view cameras. How big do you think that market is today, or was in its heyday? Hybrid methods do reduce the need for big cameras but I don't see how that is necessarily a negative (no pun intended). I would rather see 50 young and enthusiastic people shooting 35 and 120 and getting into the darkroom than chase the 1-2 individuals fighting to lug around a giant camera and losing interest a month later. Yes, it is easier to do alternative printing using smaller formats and hybrid methods, and for that reason, more people are willing to experience it. How can that be bad? I don't see how relegating such processes to the extremely few who shoot large format can really help the masses, film and the art in general.

  7. #57
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I have to disagree

    Name one Site that is more dedicated to printing than APUG and I will eat my hat.... I just want to discuss alt methods of making these prints, and unfortunately/ fortunately it means using some digital gear.
    Dpug has not taken off and can be days or weeks before a decent response to a post, here its next minute conversation.

    Seriously there are no other sites.. I keep hearing people say this here but to date no proof of this..
    I'm with Bob. The pointless, fratricidal feud has to end. It's 2012 and the analog world isn't what it was a decade ago. All I hear at DPUG are crickets chirping.

  8. #58
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Look at quality as well as quantity. Compare the signal-to-noise ratio in these two threads, for instance:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/1...oke-kodak.html

    http://www.dpug.org/forums/f6/scanni...ar-100-a-2972/

    If I were a DPUG-only member, I'm not sure I'd be so enthusiastic about integrating with APUG.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  9. #59

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    that's great to hear sean !
    a seamless doorway that people can switch on
    and see + take part in the other side if they want to
    and if they don't want to, they can just leave the doorway closed
    and not even realize the other side is ther.

    i think it will add oodles to both worlds, seeing we are nearly joined at the hip.
    - john

    ps, thanks mods, your work is endless and thankless, and it makes our life that much better ...

  10. #60
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    I've always made mine out of coat hanger wire and pieces of paper or cardboard. Does this mean I could make them for other people, and they would pay cash money for them? I'll be rich!
    You may not get rich but yes, there are and have been many people who have made or supplemented their living making tools to support traditional methods. For example http://www.apug.org/forums/forum379/...-wand-set.html , I bought a set and use them regularly.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin



 

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